DLA clueless in decision making!

tomtom256

racon wrote: »

Maybe that is because they aren't used to filling in these types of forms, maybe they have a mental or physical illness that causes them problems when filling in forms, maybe there aren't any local welfare rights charities. Many people cannot explain things clearly in the written format. And there are those that don't see the point in spending hours and hours filling out a DWP form only to find later when the decision comes through that no one actually spent time reading what had been written. We then have the Face to Face assessors that range from excellent and coax the answers to those that simply don't give a damn.
No one should have to suffer any difficulties if they cannot/will not complete these forms.


As for evidence, there is no obligation, legal or otherwise, to spend time and money researching and searching for reports etc. It is quite clear from both the PIP claim form as well as the DLA one, that the onus is upon the assessor/dwp to obtain the required evidence at their cost, not at the cost to the claimant.


Oh yes guilty as charged. I tick just the boxes and refuse to spend time and money doing the job that the DWP should be doing. I don't have the physical or mental capability to do otherwise.

But from your posts on here, it is quite clear you do have the mental capability to do so.

If you cannot be bothered to send evidence you already hold about your condition, then you are not going to get anywhere.

I have a list of dates I have seen specialists, dates of diagnosis and the prognosis on file, seeing as they copy you in on most if not all letters.

It's not rocket science to include these in any application for DLA/PIP.

Obviously those that can't do it themselves, will struggle, but I can't see those that would struggle with that side of an application, posting on this forum, but would hope they have people who can help them.

Poppie68

Refusing to do DWPs job for them.....where have we heard that before!:think:

dori2o

racon wrote: »

Maybe that is because they aren't used to filling in these types of forms, maybe they have a mental or physical illness that causes them problems when filling in forms, maybe there aren't any local welfare rights charities. Many people cannot explain things clearly in the written format. And there are those that don't see the point in spending hours and hours filling out a DWP form only to find later when the decision comes through that no one actually spent time reading what had been written. We then have the Face to Face assessors that range from excellent and coax the answers to those that simply don't give a damn.
No one should have to suffer any difficulties if they cannot/will not complete these forms.


As for evidence, there is no obligation, legal or otherwise, to spend time and money researching and searching for reports etc. It is quite clear from both the PIP claim form as well as the DLA one, that the onus is upon the assessor/dwp to obtain the required evidence at their cost, not at the cost to the claimant.


Oh yes guilty as charged. I tick just the boxes and refuse to spend time and money doing the job that the DWP should be doing. I don't have the physical or mental capability to do otherwise.

You are right, there is no obligation on the claimant to provide anything but the answers on the form. BUT....

There are enough people who have claimed the benefits in question on this and other forums and the overwhelming consensus is that you should send anything and everything you have in order to make your claim as watertight as possible.

There is actually no obligation on the DWP's behalf for them to obtain your medical records. Their only obligation is to contact your GP.

Now, if you are like me then you will not only see your GP but also at least 1 specialist and possible also other medical practitioners in dealing with your disability.

Whilst my GP may sign my prescriptions every 28 days he has no idea at all about chronic pain. He's not trained to have an expert view on it, thats why I see a specialist in in pain and the treatment of it.

Therefore any medical evidence I can prvide from the specialist is especially valuable to the claim as the questionairre that is sent to the GP will not give the detail that the pain specialist will.

When I claimed for the first time I found the rejections and the appeals the most frustrating part of the claim, so much so that I had an episode at home one day which was a culmination of the stress. My daughters found me collapsed on the stairs at home. I had no recollection of what happened, I had just collapsed. The A&E doctrs confirmed it was stress associated.

So to tell people not to send in evidence is IMO wrong.

Do what you can to make the claim process as easy as possible for you

Ames

I'm sorry for your friend OP. But as long as she's done all she can re paperwork there's no need to go worrying about what might happen, she should save herself the stress and just go with the flo.

dori2o

racon wrote: »

Thanks for agreeing with me. What you go on to say is clearly what the DWP have managed to do - craftily put the onus on the claimant to save their time. People have been conditioned by the DWP into going along with what helps the DWP. I won't dispute that asking the GP for a factual report is probably a waste of time. However, the DWP have it within their power to ask ANYBODY that they believe may be able to shed light on your disabilities. In the main this consists of, and not limited to, a Social Worker, OT, Care Worker, CPN, as well as the consultants that you are seeing. The DWP have a duty of care to ensure that they seek out this evidence. They certainly have it with PIP which has been clearly identified within the last review.
I don't know where you are managing to get your other evidence from - all I have is my repeat prescription list. If I want anything else I have to pay for it including from my GP at the rate of 50p per sheet or the actual cost, which ever is the highest of photocopied documents.
I'm not telling people not send what they already have. What I am saying is that the claimant is not required to hunt for and pay for anything that they don't already have to hand.
Incidentally, I have just been through a PIP conversion in which they removed my High Mobility and Middle Care that I have had for many years. I ended up with 0 points. On top of that they refused a claim for Attendance Allowance. Why, because I found out that they didn't bother to contact anybody on the list I gave them that could confirm what I had said. Is that my fault or is it the fault of the DWP for being to damn lazy?

When you have treatment with any specialist which is within the banner of the NHS then each time you have this treatment or follow up appointment you are offered, as is your right, the opportunity to receive a copy of the letter that the consultant etc sends to your GP. This generally details what treatment was given, what was discussed during the meeting, what medication changes were agreed, any changes in condition/prognosis etc etc.

Now, you say you don't want to know what is being discussed between your consultant and your GP as it's 'between them' and that you probably 'wouldn't understand it'.

Personally I am of the opinion that I should know absolutely everything about my condition and that includes knowing what the consultant is telling my GP. It is 100% necessary IMO to receive copies of every leter that is sent t the GP which is in reference to a long term illness or disability.

I have copies of every single one of my letters from 2006 onwards and they are also scanned and held as a digital copy on the PC and also held in a storage folder on the cloud.

This means that anytime I need a copy of a letter I can very quickly print one off. This is great for when it comes to filling in forms.

Despite what reviews of PIP have said regarding the duty f the DWP to gather evidence we all know that the evidence they request will cover only the basics of the condition. They will not request an in depth report, and neither is there any requirement for them to do so.

The quality, or lack of quality, of the information they have requested is not a valid reason for appeal against a PIP decision an at appeal it is for the claimant to show where and why the decision is incorrect.

IMO why face the prospect f having to appeal a wrong decision which is the part I found most stressful, simply send whatever you can lay your hands on with the original claim. It may be that the quality f what you send is sufficient enough even to bypass the need for a medical once the evidence has been reviewed by ATOS or the DWP's in house medical service.

Regarding the cost of gathering evidence, I have never had to pay a single penny for any letter or copy of letters from my GP or specialist.

If you want copies of the letters from your consultant, OT, social worker then contact the secretary of that person and request that they send you copies of the letters that they have already sent to your GP, it's very unlikely that they will charge you anything.

If you need something from your GP then ask and explain that you are having financial issues and see if they will provide the details for you without charge.

Most GP's surgeries used to charge for copies of reprts etc as there was a lot of man hours required in order to photocopy letters, test results etc which were generally hel as physical paper records. Now I believe that most GP surgeries receive all letters an test results in electronic form and therefore in order to issue any copies of letters it is merely a case of selecting the details required and pressing 'print'.

Even if there is a charge I personally would pay it as the benefit of receiving the DLA/PIP/ESA etc far outweighs the cost of paying for GP reports or copies of letters.

tomtom256

racon wrote: »

Well thanks for that diagnosis. It seems that you may well be better qualified to determine that than all of my consultants put together!
The only 'evidence' that I hold appertaining to any or all of my conditions is the 6 page monthly repeat prescription list which I do send to the DWP. Apart from that I do have the letters that tell me the date of the next appointment, but I can't see how that information is relevant to either the PIP descriptors or the care/mobility problems that I have. So what else would you suggest that I send? I don't receive copies of any other letters, I don't see the point to be honest. What the consultants want to discuss with my GP is between them and besides which I probably wouldn't understand any of it.
A diagnosis or prognosis as you well know is not relevant to either PIP or DLA.
So for those that simply can't complete the form fully and/or send some evidence in should have to join up to a Disability Rights forum to get advice? That is assuming that they have a computer and know how to use it. Additionally there are many that don't have a friend to confide in and to ask for help. What happens to them?
You are aware that with the recent PIP review, that it was made completely clear who is responsible for obtaining evidence - the assessor/DWP. Would you like me to post a link?

And there you go, proving my point about mental capability. I didn't diagnose you as I do not know what your alleged issue are. nor did I state you do not have any Mental Heath issues.

I just pointed oput that as a layman, it is clear from your posts that you can string together comprehensive statements and make rational and argumentative points about PIP and the DWP, which contradicts your statement about mental capability.

Now back to the topic on point, the information I keep and listed was useful for DLA, however having not been transferred to or having to apply for PIP just yet, I haven't really looked at what they need.

However I will still provide this evidence as it cannot harm the application in anyway and would strengthen that I do have a disability. As these letters between consultant and GP highlight my issues and what I suffer with, it will also support anu mobility and/or care needs I have.

Surely you discuss these issues with your specialist/consultant and your GP to get the best advice and help with any given problem?

You don't have to post a link, I am merely pointing out what I did, which could explain why I was awarded it within a few weeks of applying some 5 - 6 years ago. My time flies.

Why wouldn't someone want to try and make the process easy for themselves? Or would you rather everyone has to appeal?

You apply your way and get turned down and I will apply my way and see which one works out best as and when I need to.

Mrs_Ryan

My GP's surgery is happy to provide me with a copy of my psychiatrist's letters- they just print one off for me and if I need more I go to the local library and photocopy some.
I'm going through the PIP application process at the moment and have sent one copy from each of my appointments with him, both of which are excellent and detail exactly what my diagnosis is, how it is manifesting itself and the severity- also the results of the screening tests he asks me to complete each appointment along with his recommendations of next steps. I also sent the clinic letter from the last appointment with my oncologist, which at top of the main body of the letter confirms my diagnosis, along with a repeat prescription list confirming my medications. None of these things cost me a penny.
However I have found to my cost despite sending these the DWP can be clueless. When I applied last time I sent a copy of the letter from my orthopaedic consultant confirming the diagnosis he had made which I highlighted (this was not in medical jargon- but ️fairly plain language) it was on Trust headed notepaper with the name of the hospital, the date of the clinic, his secretary's contact details, his name and job title (consultant musculoskeletal surgeon) plus I provided his details on my form where it asks for details of medical professionals and indicated I was happy for them to contact him.
They never did. They also confirmed they had recieved and accepted the evidence. They then however went on to state 'there was no medical diagnosis for my pain from a suitably qualified person' to which I asked them incredulously that if a consultant surgeon in that field wasn't qualified to make a diagnosis who on earth was?!
They had no answer to this. If they were any doubt about the credibility of the diagnosis/his credentials then they had more than sufficient details in which they could check this out. I hope that this time they don't come back and tell me they think my psychiatrist isn't qualified and have contacted my GP who has allegedly told them I have mild depression again! (Which they didn't say last time either :mad:)

SandraScarlett

I think there's a couple of folk from Andy School lurking about, but I do find some of the tales amusing! What happened to the last one who started every post with "Yeh"?


xx

Mrs_Ryan

I thought it was 'hey' and I think that one is still lurking

sheep-ali

dori2o wrote: »

When you have treatment with any specialist which is within the banner of the NHS then each time you have this treatment or follow up appointment you are offered, as is your right, the opportunity to receive a copy of the letter that the consultant etc sends to your GP. This generally details what treatment was given, what was discussed during the meeting, what medication changes were agreed, any changes in condition/prognosis etc etc

Despite seeing a variety of specialists over the years, not once have I been offered the opportunity to receive a copy of the letter sent to my GP.
I was completely unaware that I had any right to see these without going down the route of asking to see my medical records.