Surveys & JSA

YKay

I only do pinecone surveys, but I currently claim JSA? Am I allowed to continue with the surveys or do I need to inform them?

Flyonthewall

Surveys are rather a grey area in terms of money gained. Most sites state money earnt is a reward or gift and you don't have to declare gifts/rewards. For some sites you can gain gift cards or items rather than actual cash too. You don't work for the survey sites and therefore it's not income in the same sense as a job is.

I imagine a lot of advisors would probably not understand and jump to conclusions. They'd probably think it's a job the second you say I'm getting cash from (site name). So if you do tell them make sure they fully understand.

There have been topics on here about surveys and tax before. Most don't think to declare it, a lot will say the same as I have about it not being a job (just a reward) and some believe that you should be taxed on it (and in this case tell the job centre). Like I say, bit of a grey area.

libra10

Although Pinecone are one of the better paying survey companies, they only pay £3 per survey to new members/£4 to older members.

If they are the only survey company you do surveys for, it would take lots of completed surveys before Jobseekers would become interested.

Good luck

Flyonthewall

libra10 wrote: »

Although Pinecone are one of the better paying survey companies, they only pay £3 per survey to new members/£4 to older members.

If they are the only survey company you do surveys for, it would take lots of completed surveys before Jobseekers would become interested.

Good luck

The amount isn't important. You could work 1 hour a week for minimum wage, but you'd still have to declare it and it could have an effect on your benefits because you are working and gaining money from it.

Cuilean

Way back when I last claimed JSA (We're going back about 10 years now), I was also doing Pinecone surveys, and they were offering to pay in Paypal credit or £4 Luncheon Vouchers. I always took the Luncheon Vouchers because you could use them at the supermarket to pay for groceries. I ran it past my advisors at the Job Centre, and they asked if the surveys were a regular guaranteed income, which they weren't. I was lucky to get one a month. In light of that, they weren't interested. Of course, that might all have changed now...

System

I was advised by HMRC that I must declare all online earnings, survey sites, mystery shopping etc that are completed for commercial purposes.

The different advisors that I spoke to each mentioned if I was just completing surveys with YouGov and getting £50 a year that it wasn't a big deal, however anything else would need to be declared.

Contrary to what flyonthewall has said you are working for the survey sites. You are completing surveys for the purpose of gaining income/profit, which you are doing.

If in doubt about this you can ring HMRC anonymously and ask the same question, I'm sure they will back up what I have said.

Anyone who convinces themselves that they do not need to declare online earnings is kidding themselves. IF you are completing surveys, writing reviews, undertaking mystery shopping etc, and you are making any income then this should be declared.

Also, JSA is usually based on your income (if you've had contributions based that only lasts 6 months) so earning extra income could see that being jeopardised and you forced to pay back any over payments.

With regards to being a 'regular income' that is irrelevant also. A builder may not have guaranteed work every week or day when self-employed but they still have to declare their earnings.

I'm sure someone will say that I am being extreme but regardless the law is the law and I was once told on MSE that I didn't need to declare, because it was 'only surveys' and clearly that is not true.

All too often people here on MSE take the advice of others, who are either not earning that money themselves, breaking the law unintentionally or even intentionally because this is an area that isn't well checked by HMRC at present. That doesn't mean it won't change in the future. It is always best to ring HMRC direct to discuss things, and keep a record (recorded preferably) for future reference/problems should any arise, rather than taking the advice of strangers on a forum. This isn't a particular dig at anyone who has replied here, or anywhere else on MSE in the past, and is just a general comment. Better to check yourself than to trust someone who may or may not have the correct information.

Flyonthewall

katykicker wrote: »

The different advisors that I spoke to each mentioned if I was just completing surveys with YouGov and getting £50 a year that it wasn't a big deal, however anything else would need to be declared.

So at what point would it be considered a big deal?

Contrary to what flyonthewall has said you are working for the survey sites. You are completing surveys for the purpose of gaining income/profit, which you are doing.

You are not employed by them though, which is what I meant. You are not staff, not paid a regular amount, can come and go to the sites as you wish etc. You are rewarded for doing activities (i.e. surveys). It's not the same as working for a company, being employed, and getting a wage.

With regards to being a 'regular income' that is irrelevant also. A builder may not have guaranteed work every week or day when self-employed but they still have to declare their earnings.

You never hear a builder say "hey, you can reward me with £200 for building this wall", they say "this job will be £200". Although even that wouldn't be the same, you don't get to choose how much you want for doing a survey. When employed or self employed you are doing a job and everyone involved knows it's a job and an amount will be paid for the work. Survey sites state you do not work for them/are not employed by them.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be declared, but doing surveys is very different to being employed or doing self employed work. You aren't employed by the sites.

I've read many people who have had the complete opposite experience when talking to HMRC. So as I said, it seems to be a bit of a grey area as experiences vary.

System

Flyonthewall wrote: »

So at what point would it be considered a big deal?

I declare everything I earn, so presumably over £50 a year, which was the amount that they mentioned.

Flyonthewall wrote: »

You are not employed by them though, which is what I meant. You are not staff, not paid a regular amount, can come and go to the sites as you wish etc. You are rewarded for doing activities (i.e. surveys). It's not the same as working for a company, being employed, and getting a wage.

No it isn't the same, that is why I am registered as self-employed, because I pick and choose what work I want to undertake online and via such companies.

Flyonthewall wrote: »

You never hear a builder say "hey, you can reward me with £200 for building this wall", they say "this job will be £200". Although even that wouldn't be the same, you don't get to choose how much you want for doing a survey. When employed or self employed you are doing a job and everyone involved knows it's a job and an amount will be paid for the work. Survey sites state you do not work for them/are not employed by them.

Again this comes down to self-employment. A builder chooses what work to complete for their rate, the same as I choose what surveys to complete for the advised remuneration.

Flyonthewall wrote: »

I've read many people who have had the complete opposite experience when talking to HMRC. So as I said, it seems to be a bit of a grey area as experiences vary.

It does seem to be a grey area but the fact is if you are earning money for completing some form of work, whether selling items you've made, completing surveys, attending a mystery shopping visit, writing a review, from visitors on your blog or anything else online it should be declared.

HMRC can be a pain, I had trouble even giving them a job description, for the varied work that I do, I tried a number of things before I wrote 'general online dogsbody' in frustration and it worked.

My entire message wasn't aimed at you, just the part where I mentioned your name specifically.

System

Also, another grey area is the mention of gifts/vouchers/vouchers that can be used for cash.

Employers pay National Insurance Contributions on such items when given to staff, so whether these would need to be declared is another grey area with HMRC.

Why would an employer of staff have to declare such things and not someone working as a sole trader or even just completing a few surveys when they receive them.

Obviously earning under the tax threshold and not declaring is not as big a deal as earning money while on benefits when not being allowed to and not declaring that. The first can be punished with a small fine, if somehow found out, and the potential (but unlikely outcome) of a criminal record and the second can lead to fine, criminal record/prison sentence and sanction of benefits.

I don't receive any benefits, and neither does anyone in my household. I also earn £15,000+ a year from online work, so naturally I will declare that Also I want to pay national insurance contributions to ensure that I receive maternity allowance when I have children for 39 weeks or whatever it is at the time (which adds up to around £5,000+ for each child).

The old me would have said if you are getting a few vouchers or the odd £3/4 Paypal to just use it online and not put it into your bank account so don't take my replies personally, I just see a LOT of people on here giving advice that may lead to someone breaking the law, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Flyonthewall

katykicker wrote: »

I declare everything I earn, so presumably over £50 a year, which was the amount that they mentioned.

Seems a rather random amount...lol.

No it isn't the same, that is why I am registered as self-employed, because I pick and choose what work I want to undertake online and via such companies.

Again this comes down to self-employment. A builder chooses what work to complete for their rate, the same as I choose what surveys to complete for the advised remuneration.

Yes but they can set the rate to anything they wish. You can choose to do, for example, a £5 survey over a £1, but at no point can you set the rate or invoice the sites at your rates for doing a survey. With self employment the amount earnt is usually decided by the self employed person or agreed between the two parties, which isn't the case with the sites.

It does seem to be a grey area but the fact is if you are earning money for completing some form of work, whether selling items you've made, completing surveys, attending a mystery shopping visit, writing a review, from visitors on your blog or anything else online it should be declared.

See I use survey sites that say they reward you and surveys are there for companies to get feedback and opinions, not as jobs. I don't class it as work as I am in no way employed by them or have any legal rights regarding working for someone.

Mystery shopping is slightly different, as is having your own blog.

Obviously there are many online jobs that should be declared without a doubt (such as buying and reselling on ebay, for example). If earning in the thousands online it makes sense to declare it all to be on the safe side. For much smaller amounts that are stated to be rewards...I guess, for now at least, opinions will stay divided.

HMRC can be a pain, I had trouble even giving them a job description, for the varied work that I do, I tried a number of things before I wrote 'general online dogsbody' in frustration and it worked.

My entire message wasn't aimed at you, just the part where I mentioned your name specifically.

Lol I can imagine.

I know.

Flyonthewall

katykicker wrote: »

Also, another grey area is the mention of gifts/vouchers/vouchers that can be used for cash.

Employers pay National Insurance Contributions on such items when given to staff, so whether these would need to be declared is another grey area with HMRC.

Why would an employer of staff have to declare such things and not someone working as a sole trader or even just completing a few surveys when they receive them.

Well that would be a company expense I'd guess. Those who own the sites are running businesses and will be paying tax and I'd guess declare doing the same thing. Receiving them as a gift or reward is different though.

Obviously earning under the tax threshold and not declaring is not as big a deal as earning money while on benefits when not being allowed to and not declaring that. The first can be punished with a small fine, if somehow found out, and the potential (but unlikely outcome) of a criminal record and the second can lead to fine, criminal record/prison sentence and sanction of benefits.

I don't receive any benefits, and neither does anyone in my household. I also earn £15,000+ a year from online work, so naturally I will declare that Also I want to pay national insurance contributions to ensure that I receive maternity allowance when I have children for 39 weeks or whatever it is at the time (which adds up to around £5,000+ for each child).

The old me would have said if you are getting a few vouchers or the odd £3/4 Paypal to just use it online and not put it into your bank account so don't take my replies personally, I just see a LOT of people on here giving advice that may lead to someone breaking the law, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Yeah, in your situation it makes sense to declare it all. For most what they get is a small reward, not an amount they would be able to live on.