Privately Renting Space but Fined by UKPC

cpheonix

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can advise please.

I've been privately renting a parking space around the corner from where I live for 3 months and in the last week I got a fine from UKPC for not displaying a valid permit (even though it was displayed). The person I am renting the space from says that it was because the number plate wasn't on the permit but he has an agreement with the managing agency that he doesn't need one because he has numerous cars (I guess one being mine - not sure how legal this is) and they only issue one permit.

He reassured me that he has appealed the ticket because of this (I checked online and he had) and that I can continue parking. Obviously like an idiot I did and now I have another ticket for the same reason. The owner said he'll now speak to them again and I should still continue to park there (which I won't now).

The question is, am I still liable for the tickets and should I believe him? I signed a very flimsy, home-made, contract with him that was only for a month originally so I'm sure I can't do anything legally.

Thanks

Redx

Privately Renting Space but Fined by UKPC
Hi all, I wonder if anyone can advise please.

I've been privately renting a parking space around the corner from where I live for 3 months and in the last week I got a fine from UKPC for not displaying a valid permit (even though it was displayed).

no you didnt , UKPC cannot fine anybody, neither can any other parking company

they can give or send you an invoice

ampersand

...an unenforceable invoice at that :-).

Follow redx's signature advice and start reading thoroughly. We'll look at any draft letters you post for a critique.

re: 'I'm sure I can't do anything legally' - YOU can: THEY can't:-)... provided you follow redx's and Forum advice sensibly.

cpheonix

OK thanks but the issue is I am renting the space from someone who gave me the permit to be displayed. I displayed this but still got the notice on my windscreen.

Who would be liable for this notice, him (whose space it is) or me (as it's my car)? I'm wondering if he's legally allowed to rent the space so if I contact UKPC outlining what happened, what would happen?

Umkomaas

Never phone a PPC, never phone a debt collector. You will get absolutely nowhere.

Technically, if it's your car, it's your responsibility, nothing to do with your landlord as such. But if he has some kind of an arrangement with the UKPC, let him get on with things and see what transpires.

At this stage you don't need to do anything unless/until you get a NtK, other than to read the first post of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, which will prepare you should you receive a NtK.

The_Deep

Do not contact UKPC, they will lie to you.

You can cost them money by appealing to them to cancel the ticket and, if they refuse, appeal to PoPLA, or you can ignore, you have no contract with them and, apart from a few begging letters, they are unlikely to take matters further. If PPCs were cars, PPC would be an Edsel,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

HO87

Whether the person you rent from actually has the right to do so from a legal perspective is not really relevant. The fact that you have a form of written contract/tenancy agreement (regardless of how poorly worded or flimsy it is) demonstrates that you and he had the intention to form a legal relationship. The fact is that the reality of the situation is that you are renting it, are paying paying for the privilege and were displaying a valid permit the format of which has previously been agreed by the management company.

I don't quite understand why your parking "landlord" has appealed the ticket - if indeed he has - given that it was issued to a car that you parked there? But hey ho, let's see what comes of it.

You are wanting to diminish you own legal position whilst simultaneously inflating the legal position of UKPC - who have no legal right whatsoever to be imposing the charge they have. Any loss could only have been incurred by the freeholder to the site and with the agreements you have in place there can have been no loss and therefore no justification for UKPC to demand anything from you/your "landlord".

Might I suggest that you get hold of him and find out where the "appeal" has gone and at what stage it is. If he hasn't actually done anything then get him to identify you as the driver and you then appeal to UKPC, and then to POPLA (as set out in the Newbies thread) and make this all go away very quickly.

If tyou leave this with your "landlord" then it could fester badly. Take control of it yourself and we will guide you in losing this unnecessary carp.

cpheonix

OK thanks but the thing is I don't know if the permit is valid. I have naively taken his word for everything thus far. It could very well be the permit could just be a photocopy of something he made up (although looking at other cars it appear legit). I've asked the renter about the appeal and he said he'd know in 28 days or however long it takes. I will take your advice and follow this up with him.

The only other thing is, when I appeal once I get a NtK, what reason would be feasible to give? Can I say the keeper of the space gave me (what I thought) was a valid ticket to display? It could easily be invalid and then where would that leave me and how could I dispute this?

Thanks again for the advice.

Redx

any dispute is on legal grounds, not mitigation, so the template letter in the NEWBIES sticky thread covers the grounds for appeal

as RK or driver of the car, you are responsible for parking it, meaning you are also responsible for checking the legality of any permits etc

in simple terms, its your job to ensure that by parking on private land you have the landowners permission to do so, especially when no money has changed hands , so this person may not be allowed to sub-let a parking space/permit

if in doubt about something, you dont do it

had this guy sub-let his council flat, you would have no legal rights to be there, because he may not have the right to sub-let in the first place, any paperwork to the contrary could be a forgery , so it would be incumbent upon you to check with the council themselves (the landowner or owner)