Problem with permit parking zone and council.

Andypandyboy

We live in an unadopted road and on our deeds the land up to the centre of the road is ours. Because we live close to a school we agred to give the council permission (in 2003) to introduce a permit parking scheme. This was in the hope that they would police it at relevant times (drop offf/pick up). This has never really happened.

Wardens do occasionally make an appearance but they won't confront parents in their cars and just hang around hoping their presence will be enough, then they go away and we don't see them at the relevant times for months on end. We have had to learn to live with this as, despite many letters from residents they say it will improve (but it doesn't) or they say they haven't got the manpower.

The bottom line is they are taking money for a service they can't or won't provide.

Now, however, they have gone too far. They sent out a letter in September stating that they would be putting a white line across drives and garages so preventing anyone parking there. Our garage fronts onto the road and we use that space as somewhere to park for visitors/extra car as a permit has never been needed there as it wasn't in the scheme.

We disputed it with the council and stated that they were expressly not to put such a marking across our garage which is on our land. They responded saying that the letter was to be passed to their legal team. To date we have not received a response to that letter.

Fast forward to Monday and I returned home to find a white line across my garage, effectively, removing a parking space from our house. As we have 3 cars that is a real problem because everyone else in the road also has a lot of cars and we all use the places outside our own houses as a courtesy to the neighbours.

Now they have stated that they may not have acted upon their rights (under traffic regs) to put lines there before but they have decided to do so now.

They have also said that we can't rescind our permissions or have any input to whether the lines/permit zone continues on our frontage as, even if we own it, and it is unadopted, they still have rights that trump ours.

We are taking this further but I wondered if anyone had any inside info re this kind of thing or personal experiences to relate?

Marktheshark

You have let the wolf in your camp.

Andypandyboy

Marktheshark wrote: »

You have let the wolf in your camp.

Don't I know it......but can I shoot him? (metaphorically speaking of course):D

ezerscrooge

You might be better on Pepipoo http://www.pepipoo.com/

If it is a road (over which there is a public right of access) then, even although it is unadopted, any parking restrictions need a Traffic Regulation Order, promoted by the Council (as they are the Traffic Authority for all roads in their area (not just "public roads" (ie adopted roads) but "all roads")

It is worth digging out a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order for the scheme - councils are notorious for getting these wrong.

It is a different matter if the road is wholly private and there is no 'public right of access'. Indications of "public right of access" are: does it look like a road? does it have a footway? is there street lighting? are there signs saying "private access"?

I suspect you could end up having to obtain proper legal advice. But not being willing to put up with the school drop offs / pick-ups looks set to cost you all very dearly in more ways than one.

ManxRed

In implementing a TRO, they would have to have stuck up planning notices (usually on lampposts) and invited anyone concerned to object to the TRO details.

Do you know if this happened?

Is there even a TRO at all (ask the Council)? If there is, get a copy, if there isn't then they can't really enforce the line.

Andypandyboy

ezerscrooge wrote: »

You might be better on Pepipoo http://www.pepipoo.com/

If it is a road (over which there is a public right of access) then, even although it is unadopted, any parking restrictions need a Traffic Regulation Order, promoted by the Council (as they are the Traffic Authority for all roads in their area (not just "public roads" (ie adopted roads) but "all roads")

It is worth digging out a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order for the scheme - councils are notorious for getting these wrong.

It is a different matter if the road is wholly private and there is no 'public right of access'. Indications of "public right of access" are: does it look like a road? does it have a footway? is there street lighting? are there signs saying "private access"?

I suspect you could end up having to obtain proper legal advice. But not being willing to put up with the school drop offs / pick-ups looks set to cost you all very dearly in more ways than one.

There is street lighting/pavement on the adopted isde of the road but not on our side. We own the road from our hosue up to the middle of the road, from there it is adopted.

We gave the council permission to roll out the scheme because we are also close to a hospital and they had little or no parking at that time (the situation has changed now and adequate parking for staff and visitors exists) and we also had the issue of parent parking and turning around in the cul de sac. I imagine the TRO was done at that time (2003) but they have not policed the scheme adequately and now lots of the issues which existed then no longer apply. It is only now though that they have decided to enforce no parking or lines over driveways and garages, which we did not agree to in the consultation.

ManxRed wrote: »

In implementing a TRO, they would have to have stuck up planning notices (usually on lampposts) and invited anyone concerned to object to the TRO details.

Do you know if this happened?

Is there even a TRO at all (ask the Council)? If there is, get a copy, if there isn't then they can't really enforce the line.

I have just done an FOI for all the documentation surrounding the scheme.

ManxRed

You don't need an FOI - they're public documents.

When traffic wardens dish out tickets they're enforcing a TRO. The lines on the road are merely to convey what's in the TRO. If there's any mismatch then they shouldn't be able to enforce it.

Andypandyboy

I have asked for the documents relating to the consultation process which we engaged in before the scheme was rolled out.