Help with UKCPS Ticket Please

flyerperson

Many thanks for all the info on this forum, which I have read quite a bit of and think I understood most of it...!

I have had a Parking CN from 'UKCPS' attached to the windscreen of a vehicle I am the RK of.

The vehicle is stated as being parked in a free to park retail car park and the observed parking 'offence' was 'out of marked bay'.

I do not plan to pay the £60 'early'full £100 fee BUT, despite my understanding from the FAQ/forum, there are a few queries from the forum advice ref appelling etc please :

1. The main justification for non-payment will be that, if for no other reason, 'out of marked bay' does not result in a financial loss to UKCPS - is that a valid ground for appeal please or do I need to go expand the list ?

eg Other points might be that it was not obvious to the driver that 'out of marked bay' is an 'offence' and that no warning signs to that effect were seen on whilst in the CP - is that valid as well please ?

2. I hope I'm right in thinking that any appeal should include the name/addr of the RK of the vehicle 'involved' ? (This is perhaps obvious, but all the eg appeal text I've read don't start with something like 'your name addr here' so for me it is assumption which could be wrong and UKCPS could get it from DVLA couldn't they ?)

Regardless, ref the FAQ entry, I understand that the advice is not to appeal immediately BUT wait for the 'NtK' communication, in this case from UKCPS.

3. My other queries are that the FAQ advice states 'appeal after around 21 days' - but is that after the date of the PCN or the RtK letter please ? Also, how does that relate to the PCN stipulation that appeals must be received within 21 days of the PCN issue date' please ?

4. Finally, any advice for actions/implications please since the RK will be overseas for the date period 38-58 of the date of PCN issue ?

I hope that I've been bland enough for this matter but also provided enough info ! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Redx

1) you mean to the landowner, not ukcps

they will argue you broke their rules , not that you owe the landowner

signage should always be contested - yes

2) their windscreen ticket relates to the driver, not the RK

wait for the NTK nd then appeal as RK (TELLS YOU THIS IN THE NEWBIES STICKY THREAD)

3) they want the driver to appeal , so they hook the driver in , hence they want it to arrive before day 29 so they can save money getting the RK details

you need to separate the 2 instances in your head, ie: the driver , and the keeper (or RK)

they want to get the drivers details, as thay are held liable and responsible , whereas the RK could hide behind POFA 2012

so the RK is going to appeal between day 29 and day 56 I would assume , meaning it doesnt matter what this windscreen ticket says

in theory, the landowner can only claim back what they lost plus the cost of claiming it , as ukcps dont own the land, they make stuff up

Coupon-mad

Does a UKCPS PCN now say the driver has just 21 days to appeal then (as per the IPC deadlines)? It used to say 28 days when they were with the BPA, just interested to know.

Anyway wait for the NTK which should arrive FROM around 30 days onwards after the PCN date. It could be a problem if it hasn't arrived before you go away so why not print off a copy of the NEWBIES thread appeal and have someone in your household ready to post it as your response, when the NTK arrives (get them to look out for it and not to panic thinking it has to be paid!). It really doesn't matter after that first appeal stage whether a letter arrives in reply and you are still away, because there's no point with IAS really, you'd lose that stage = a kangaroo court. You need to know this will not be 'sorted' and cancelled unless you complain tot the shops/landowner and you WILL get all sorts of letters all year and someone needs to be opening them and checking that they are just debt collector letters (IGNORE THE DRIVEL) as opposed to court papers (defend, we can help).

Do not pay UKCPS, don't panic. Try the complaint to the landowner/shop Manager option first and state the 'driver' was not obstructing any other car and as a family you are all horrified about this harassment of paying shoppers, etc. DO NOT imply who parked/was driving!! Google the name of the Retail Park to find who runs/Manages it and send them a stiff complaint and make it clear you are fully aware that there is no fair appeals process and if they believe there is they are sadly mistaken about their agent, who no longer belongs to the BPA so doesn't offer POPLA any more. Be very assertive - it is not on to penalise shoppers who happen to arrive at a busy sales time of year when the car park is chock-a-block and spaces are a squeeze. Ask that the PCN is cancelled or you will never return to that retail park and will put all the details on Facebook. You could even suggest that they Google UKCPS parking charge to read about their terrible, aggressive online reputation which has no place in a customer service based environment like retail.

flyerperson

Thanks for your replies.

My responses will hopefully deal with your comments/query and expand the discussion please !

ESPECIALLY as it was not clear at my end that UKCPS were no longer had a BPA connection !!!

As a result, am I right in thinking that my readings/prep ref POPLA are actually irrelevant please ???

And yes, appeals with UKCPS must be rcvd within 21 days according to the ticket...

Whilst still trying to not state any incriminating info, I should also mention that a vehicle more like a van than a car could possibly be a reason for 'out of marked bay' "offence".....

So, it may well be that if a van-like vehicle were in one of the bays at that CP it would take up more than one bay in width and stick out a bit....

Does that change things please ?

2 final 'Devils Advocate' thoughts please :

1. How can UKCPS prove the ticket was seen by the RK/driver and that correspondence to the RK has been delivered ?

2. Not directly relevant to this discussion, but a UKCPS ticket also states 'unauth removal or interference is an offence' - is it legally possible for it to be an offence ?

Coupon-mad

As a result, am I right in thinking that my readings/prep ref POPLA are actually irrelevant please ???

Yep, pointless.

Whilst still trying to not state any incriminating info, I should also mention that a vehicle more like a van than a car could possibly be a reason for 'out of marked bay' "offence".....

So, it may well be that if a van-like vehicle were in one of the bays at that CP it would take up more than one bay in width and stick out a bit....

Does that change things please ?

You can mention it - they will still reject it and IAS isn't winnable. It's unfair. Don't pay them though!

1. How can UKCPS prove the ticket was seen by the RK/driver and that correspondence to the RK has been delivered ?

2. Not directly relevant to this discussion, but a UKCPS ticket also states 'unauth removal or interference is an offence' - is it legally possible for it to be an offence ?

They can't and it's not! All rubbish!

Redx

as above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

flyerperson

Thanks.

So no POPLA, which does mean I'm now confused about precise recourse I'm afraid (I had POPLA solution already sorted, boo !) !!!

(esp as I see other posts about UKCPS discussing POPLA)

So, check of understanding please ?

1. Don't appeal ? (if it's pointless why bother ? !)

2. Wait for RK ltr ? (But then what does that provoke the RK to do ? Is it then to contact landowners/shops ?)

Ultimately, apart from contact with landowners/shops what other tasks will the RK have to do please ?

I have access to till receipts for day in question and could, as RK, personally visit 2x shops frequented when the offence is alleged - or is it better to write ?

Further thanks for help - sorry, but as a novice I hope that you can understand my confusion now POPLA action is not on the list...

The_Deep

The main justification for non-payment will be that, if for no other reason, 'out of marked bay' does not result in a financial loss to UKCPS -

But is this not a contractual term? If so it has nothing to do with loss, What they are claiming is that by parking as you did, you agreed to pay them £xxx. It is a parking charge, and therefore attracts v.a.t. How much vat did they include in the invoice? If none they may be trying to evade tax.

Further reading

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5087925=

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5033796=

Redx

popla is no longer an option because UKCPS are no longer a member of the BPA , so any threads you may have read that included popla would also have included them being members of the BPA

they are now in the IPC, so if your "contravention" happened recently, whilst they are members of the IPC, the appeals go to the IAS, the kangaroo court that is biased and in favour of the PPC - so we dont see any real advantages of appealing, but you can do so and still not pay if you lost, meaning UKCPS would have to go to court and try to get any monies they think are owed (a recourse anybody can do for any perceived contract of perceived invoice)

as for complaining, it all depends who you are complaining to , but letters create a paper trail, useful if it ever goes before a judge - personal appearances do not but may have the required effect

the RK can appeal to UKCPS

the RK can complain to the landowner or retailer etc

the RK could appeal to the IAS if UKCPS refuse his appeal

the RK could ignore everything except court papers or an LBC

the RK could eventually be in court

popla is no longer an option, as explained earlier

flyerperson

Thank you BUT after some further investigating I see that UKCPS state on their website they are BPA 'Approved Operators' = members ?

http://www.ukcps.net/faq.php

Any thoughts please - Is their website out of date or is there a difference ?

Redx

out of date , if you check the IPC website you will see they are members there and the date they joined

if you check the BPA website you will see they are NOT LISTED , but they were until they left and joined the IPC

so if your "contravention" was on or after that date , its the IPC , not the BPA , so no popla

I was watching RIP OFF BRITAIN recently, they had travel agents claiming they were registered with ATOL etc, but they werent when the BBC checked with atol , I have seen many tv programmes like thats life, watchdog etc where people or companies state they are with trade bodies and arent like the GGF or FMB or CORGI or GAS SAFE ; so dont believe all that you read, sometimes its fools gold, not real gold

there is a saying you will often see on here

"how can you tell when a debt collector is lying ? , when his lips are moving"

the same applies to private parking companies

if you dont like them having the BPA mentioned on their website, complain to the BPA, but it wont help this case of yours as its a moot point (not relevant)