Time limited car park and disabled parking

dori2o

On behalf of a friend

The car park in the centre of the small town we live in has a maximum 3 hour limit with no return then for 2 hours. It is a free car park.

There is a sign on the car park that clearly shows the max time allowed.

My friend has a Blue Badge and parked on this car park, whilst he went to the Doctors, the Dentist and the Chemist. When he returned to his car he say that he'd got a PCN.

Now, the details on the sign in the car park state that Disabled drivers MUST show their Blue Badge but it says nothing about the clock. He displayed both as they are in a leather wallet but didn't set the time on the clock as he had read the sign and assumed that the clock wasn't needed. Therefore when the Traffic Warden came round it looked like my friend had been there for much longer than 3 hours.

Am I right in thinking that in order to enforce the time limits on the car parks disabled bays that the sign must advise that the clock is needed? Or is it sufficient that the sign simply shows that the car park is time limited to 3 hours?

The_Deep

If this ticket was issued by the council, you are at the wrong forum, peppioo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

is where you need to be.

Mrs_Muckle

In the terms of use for a blue badge it says that you need to set the clock in all car parks other than supermarket and other private car parks.

The_Deep

Mrs_Muckle wrote: »

In the terms of use for a blue badge it says that you need to set the clock in all car parks other than supermarket and other private car parks.

Indeed, even I know this, and I do not have a Blue Badge (yet).

Coupon-mad

The_Deep wrote: »

If this ticket was issued by the council, you are at the wrong forum, peppioo

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

is where you need to be.

Yep - and Councils often do cancel first PCNs for disabled drivers where there has been an honest misunderstanding and no contravention (no overstay in this case). A simple appeal letter at first is worth a try then DO NOT PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE if they reject it, ask pepipoo how to win at NTO stage.

If this is a private car park then the PCN is easily knocked on the head in most cases, by the first appeal template from the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum. If it is a private one then the appellant should NOT say who was driving when appealing - so NOT 'I PARKED' nor 'I did this/displayed my Badge'. That's why the template first appeal example is there in the NEWBIES thread to show you the style to use, talking about 'the driver' in the third person.

Redx

his blue booklet tells him what to do, which in simple terms is set the arrival time using the blue clock (it will not say this on the signage) - so he hasnt followed the instructions in his booklet (few people read this booklet in my experience)

the booklet can be downloaded from the gov website and read using acrobat (adobe reader) so ANYBODY can read it quite easily - even if they havent got a BB

as mentioned above, he should appeal it as an honest oversight , pepipoo forum is the place to get appeal advice if this was a council car park

dori2o

He's not disputing that the booklet says he should display the clock, what he's disputing is the fact that this is a free car park, it is not a patrolled car park, there is no ANPR, there is no ticket machine, so the only way the warden knows if a car has been there for 3 hours is due to the log on their hand held terminal.

Surely if those cars parked in non disabled bays don't have to have a clock and are subject to the same time limits then surely it is wrong to ticket a car in a disabled bay that does not appear on the log?

The_Deep

... it is not a patrolled car park ...

So, who issued him with a ticket?

dori2o

The_Deep wrote: »

... it is not a patrolled car park ...

So, who issued him with a ticket?

A traffic warden.

What I mean is it's not a car park which has someone there all the time watching cars come and go. The Traffic wardens on mopeds come around every hour or so (at least they are supposed to) to check on the car park and ticket any cars that have been there more than 3 hours.

Redx

dori2o wrote: »

He's not disputing that the booklet says he should display the clock, what he's disputing is the fact that this is a free car park, it is not a patrolled car park, there is no ANPR, there is no ticket machine, so the only way the warden knows if a car has been there for 3 hours is due to the log on their hand held terminal.

Surely if those cars parked in non disabled bays don't have to have a clock and are subject to the same time limits then surely it is wrong to ticket a car in a disabled bay that does not appear on the log?

under the equality act 2010 the car park owner should allow extra for disabled people, this can typically mean they get twice as long as the non-disabled , or an extra hour at least , so if it was say 3 hours for the non-disabled they should allow extra time for the disabled (up to double) , so this checking the time period by logging cars is meaningless when it comes to this actual person (your friend)

they should have put a contravention code on his ticket , so worth checking what that is and if its council owned then clearly he should appeal it and maybe be looking into the extra facilities awarded to people with blue badges (strictly speaking its anyone who qualifies under the act, badge or no badge)

chances are its an over-zealous or badly trained council CEO (dont think they are traffic wardens any more)

worth checking these things out on pepipoo, providing you give them full details as more and more comes out each time you post - would also help to have pictures of the signage and knowing who owns and runs the car park

as far as setting the clock on the BB, we have been doing this for nigh on 25 years and I remember doing so on my ORANGE badge , so its a given that you set the time of arrival , so in his case its an oversight and compounded by said CEO not checking, but his appeal should be upheld if its claimed as an oversight

page 10 of the BB booklet tells you to use the clock when the parking is time limited

see here

http://www.disabledmotoring.org/blue-badge/eligibility-and-use?gclid=CjwKEAiArqKmBRCOj_qfmuqinnYSJAAkAYwGG4Rp6d4R6hOb8f4JctD0zC2cemF9l9pau8bdV8HebRoCde7w_wcB

Coupon-mad

dori2o wrote: »

A traffic warden.

What I mean is it's not a car park which has someone there all the time watching cars come and go. The Traffic wardens on mopeds come around every hour or so (at least they are supposed to) to check on the car park and ticket any cars that have been there more than 3 hours.

Agreed - ask the Council for the 'Parking Places Order' and to show you where the condition says a clock has to be set by disabled people.

Just get the appeal in and ask for the PPO and finish by asking for the PCN to be cancelled. Not too difficult at this stage, and if they reject you get to appeal again as Owner when the NTO arrives.