House ownership

hobbes2020

Hi, my brother, who recently died, shared ownership of his house with my mother but we don’t know what % for IHT purposes. Land Registry tell me that they only keep details of the owners not what % they owned which surprised me. Does anyone have any idea where I can find this information. It must be recorded somewhere surely?

Thanks,
Chris

securityguy

Your brother and your mother presumably had a contract when they entered into the agreement. You need to find it. It's none of the land registry's business. Who would your mother and brother have told?

hobbes2020

I've looked through all the papers in her house and can find nothing. It's just a bit of paper somewhere? - no official records are kept? It was 30 or more years ago the ownership was split.

Thanks,
Chris

g6jns_2

hobbes2020 wrote: »

I've looked through all the papers in her house and can find nothing. It's just a bit of paper somewhere? - no official records are kept? It was 30 or more years ago the ownership was split.

Thanks,
Chris

Is your mother still alive? Unless there is potential IHT liability I would be inclined to assume 50% but no doubt someone will say I am wrong!

nom_de_plume

Is the house registered as Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common?

Link to differences and why it's relevant.

Land_Registry

hobbes2020 wrote: »

Land Registry tell me that they only keep details of the owners not what % they owned which surprised me.

It is rare for us to have such details simply because the % share is relevant to the 'beneficial ownership' (% split or who get's what) rather than the legal ownership (100%), the latter of which we register.

nom de plume has linked you to an explanation as to how the fact that there is a split can then be registered. If the joint tenancy has been split and registered then the next bit may apply

When the agreement was made to split the 100% into shares this would normally be recorded in some way by the parties involved and/or their solicitor (if any).

This might be an agreement as posted, for example
A) a Trust Deed or Declaration of Trust which they then sign etc; or
A letter between the parties and/or their solicitor confirming the details; or
C) a clause added to the Transfer deed or any other deed used when they acquired the property - this will obviously depend in part on whether the split happened at the same time as the purchase for example or not though.

So in essence, and where a percentage share exists, the details of such shares would not be referred to on the register.

The details might be held in papers lodged as in example C or the Deed/letter mentioned in examples A and C and then retained by us. But it is rare for such details to be provided.

If the split happened 30 years ago and IF any details were lodged with us then they may appear in our paper records. I don't know what details were discussed with us when you enquired but it may be worth contacting us to at least check a little deeper in case anything was lodged and retained?

Before you do though it is worth noting that even if the %s were noted in some way in our records that may not be conclusive as if they later changed the % shares it is almost certain that they would not have informed us for the reasons already stated above.

In the circumstances I would perhaps be more inclined to check the rules around IHT as to what to do in such circumstances in line with what g6jns is perhaps suggesting?

hobbes2020

Thanks very much for all the advice. Land Registry told me the following: "The proprietors hold the property as tenants in common, and not joint tenants." - they also advised me to request a copy of the deeds just in case the split was recorded. There is a IHT liability. I will request the deeds and if that proves fruitless I'll have to try and track down the original solicitor I assume.

Cheers,
Chris
P.S. yes my mother is still alive - but doesn't remember the details.

nom_de_plume

There may be clues also if you can find any details of how the property was purchased but, given the time that has passed since, it may be difficult.
Was it bought by both originally or did your brother buy a share?
Was there any right to buy discounts? Many people 'helped' their parents buy their ex LA home as it was viewed as a profitable long term investment.
There's so many variables that anything without documentation is likely to be pure speculation.

Mojisola

nom_de_plume wrote: »

There's so many variables that anything without documentation is likely to be pure speculation.

If no documentation can be found, would a 50/50 split be assumed?

hobbes2020 will have to put something on the IHT paperwork.

getmore4less

Did they both live there?

hobbes2020

Yes they both lived there. My brother bought a share from my mother after my father died.