HSBC FTSE All Share Tracker Fund

masonic

Ryan_Futuristics wrote: »

Going on the latest Telegraph's latest charts

Simulating a basic portfolio with each

Wow!! I'm speechless. :shocked::shocked::shocked:
That doesn't even slightly resemble reality!

URL please? If this is really what Telegraph is representing as the cost of holding a funds only portfolio on these platforms then someone needs lay into them in the strongest terms.

Edit: Nevermind, found the article. I have lost any respect I had for LangCat financial. What a load of tripe!

Here are the real costs of holding £5k over 1 year for example:

http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/

Ryan_Futuristics

masonic wrote: »

Wow!! I'm speechless. :shocked::shocked::shocked:
That doesn't even slightly resemble reality!

URL please? If this is really what Telegraph is representing as the cost of holding a funds only portfolio on these platforms then someone needs lay into them in the strongest terms.

Edit: Nevermind, found the article. I have lost any respect I had for LangCat financial. What a load of tripe!

Here are the real costs of holding £5k over 1 year for example:

http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/

Well I can get very different results on comparefundplatforms depending on how many trades I do, and whether they're looking at average fund discounts and whether they're as upto date on charges?

Buy-and-hold, no trades, no discounts, it'll obviously just come down to the annual charge - but HL usually come out top 3 cheapest for me through other savings

masonic

Ryan_Futuristics wrote: »

Well I can get very different results on comparefundplatforms depending on how many trades I do, and whether they're looking at average fund discounts and whether they're as upto date on charges?

Buy-and-hold, no trades, no discounts, it'll obviously just come down to the annual charge - but HL usually come out top 3 cheapest for me through other savings

The only platform on that list which charges for fund trades is Youinvest, so yes that one would become more expensive the more you buy and sell.

You know full well that HL does not charge for buying and selling funds and CSD are exactly the same. As for discounts, the OP is invested in trackers, for which discounts are irrelevant.

Quite frankly, sometimes I think you deliberately set out to mislead.

ChopperST

Snowman's excellent spreadsheet is a great tool to decide costs.

Using the OP as an example £500 in a single fund with no further dealing would be 100% more expensive with Hargreaves.

£1 per anum with CSD v £2 per anum with HL.

Every little helps though.

Consensus is for smaller portfolios a % fee is best. Once your total amount invested reaches £18-£20k then a fixed fee broker makes more sense.

Ryan_Futuristics

masonic wrote: »

The only platform on that list which charges for fund trades is Youinvest, so yes that one would become more expensive the more you buy and sell.

You know full well that HL does not charge for buying and selling funds and CSD are exactly the same. As for discounts, the OP is invested in trackers, for which discounts are irrelevant.

Quite frankly, sometimes I think you deliberately set out to mislead.

Honestly first portfolio simulation I ran with comparefundplatforms just now - monthly investments into a range of funds and 2 ITs

I don't have a clue what CSD's current charges are, so I've not tailored this to make them come out poorly ... EDIT: ran it again holding only 8 funds - same result

masonic

Ryan_Futuristics wrote: »

Honestly first portfolio simulation I ran with comparefundplatforms just now - monthly investments into a range of funds and 2 ITs

Here's your problem: Investment Trusts. Very expensive because of trading costs for a small portfolio of £5000 or less and clearly inappropriate based on the OP's situation.

How you could think anyone in their right mind would invest £100 per month into 2 shares (£50 per share per month) is beyond me, especially when you've previously cautioned against buying in less than £5,000 tranches, advising people with smaller contributions they would be better off in funds. Even at a low regular saving cost of £1.50 per trade, this is 3% of the value invested thrown away in charges, without even considering the cost of selling or switching investments.

Clearly the OP is interested, quite rightly given the portfolio size, in investing in funds, not ETFs, not shares, not investment trusts.

Edit: Here is the simulation re-run with 8 funds, no shares, monthly saving of £250 spread between the funds plus one fund switch per month (final value £5,000)...
Charges stay in those proportions, until about £18-20k, where as ChopperST points out the fixed fee platforms start to creep in to the list.

jimjames

Interesting how HL is coming out in those, not what I'd expect. Wonder why?

masonic

jimjames wrote: »

Interesting how HL is coming out in those, not what I'd expect. Wonder why?

The low £1.50 cost for regular investing into ITs, ETFs and shares will certainly be the reason. In fact, HL is highly competitive for regular investing into these types of holding unwrapped, since no platform fee is charged. It is not too bad for regular investing into an ISA either if you have a large enough sum, since the platform fee is capped at £45. Most of the other platforms do not have this £1.50 reduced rate, so the trading fees push the costs right up.

Whereas dealing funds is free on those platforms listed, and holdings are subject to the standard platform fee, so the platform fee is essentially the only cost of investing in this type of holding.

Edit: I suppose it's worth pointing out that people don't get £1.50 trades if they want to trade at best or using limit orders, only if they are happy to prearrange a buy on a set day each month.

Ryan_Futuristics

masonic wrote: »

Here's your problem: Investment Trusts. Very expensive because of trading costs for a small portfolio of £5000 or less and clearly inappropriate based on the OP's situation.

How you could think anyone in their right mind would invest £100 per month into 2 shares (£50 per share per month) is beyond me, especially when you've previously cautioned against buying in less than £5,000 tranches, advising people with smaller contributions they would be better off in funds. Even at a low regular saving cost of £1.50 per trade, this is 3% of the value invested thrown away in charges, without even considering the cost of selling or switching investments.

Clearly the OP is interested, quite rightly given the portfolio size, in investing in funds, not ETFs, not shares, not investment trusts.

Edit: Here is the simulation re-run with 8 funds, no shares, monthly saving of £250 spread between the funds plus one fund switch per month (final value £5,000)...
Charges stay in those proportions, until about £18-20k, where as ChopperST points out the fixed fee platforms start to creep in to the list.

Ha, well if you're avoiding shares because you know CSD is expensive there, that's what we'd call sculpting the data ... And even in yours, the difference is 0.21% (wiped out by a similar discount on a fund HL are offering, or timing a single trade)

I specified 12 share trades/year, so it presumably can't be investing twice a month at £50/each ... £100/month into an investment trust, with 1.5% in fees, is quite acceptable ... plenty of 'cheap' trackers have similar bid-spreads

See, not being able to invest in ITs, ETFs or shares cheaply would seem like a shortfall to me ... ITs tend to make very good core holdings ... UK equity ITs have consistently outperformed, while there simply aren't unit trust equivalents of global funds like Murray International or The Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust

crystal_pixie_2

I have been following this thread with interest and two things that seems to stand out is as not being discussed.

1. Reputation
2. Usability of the site and the company

I did the same thing looking at costs etc and then I went onto all the platform websites and started to use them. Depending on how you are wired then some sites are better than others.

I like HL because their site is good and they are quick with transactions. They also helped me formulate my initial portfolio for nothing.

Plus HL have been around a while and have a good reputation. Personally this is important. I stopped banking with all the high street banks after some dreadful experiences. I now have to pay for my account with a non UK institution - but I get a good service and I can ring or go and chat with someone. Same goes for HL - although I am lucky to be Bristol based.