Can we sue ?

davidmcn

nicter wrote: »

Unfortunately we have nothing in writing

In which case the answer to your original question is (for all practical purposes) no.

nicter

Unfortunately we have been told the water table here is very high therefore another soakaway is not feasible

Davesnave

Your last two posts pretty much answer the original question. Sometimes, when people are economical with the truth on questions before contract, it's worth going after them, but in this case the waters are too muddy, literally, and you only have hearsay evidence.

So, now you should determine whether the companies you're receiving quotes from are being entirely straight with you, because, as some of us have pointed out, despite septic tanks not being "suitable for modern water volumes," we don't empty ours often, or even yearly. Mine went 5 years between visits from the lorry, and even then it was only because next door, who share the soakaway, had wrought havoc on the system and blocked it.

As a result of the above, the properties needed a new soakaway, which was much cheaper than converting to a sewage treatment plant. However, it's still shared, and as next door's tank seems likely to be abused again in the longer term, I may need to convert in the future.

All part of the joys in country living!

moneyistooshorttomention

nicter wrote: »

We did ask the vendor how often the tank needed emptying and were told "we haven't had it done for several years"
Unfortunately we have nothing in writing

"Weasel words" as I call them. They definitely knew they had a problem then, to respond with those exact words. "We haven't had it done for several years" was a truthful statement on the face of it, as they probably hadn't had it done for several years.

But you asked them the question "How often does the tank need emptying?" and they replied as if the question had been "How often do YOU empty the tank?". Two different questions and they answered the one they wanted you to ask, rather than the one you actually did ask.

My sympathies, as I had a Weasel Words Scenario from my own vendor and made a mental note to myself that future questions (should I swop houses again) will be couched in absolute forensically careful words and put down in writing (from me personally) and I will then hold out the notepad for them to put their reply back in writing and check whether they have answered the question I actually asked.

"Misrepresentation" would appear to be the correct legal term for what has happened to you. Its my understanding that vendors who do that can be "had" for up to 15 years after their lies and maximum penalty is being forced to buy the house back off you. I couldn't honestly say what your chances are for succeeding with that if you decide to pursue it.

Good luck. Hope you get it sorted out.

AdrianC

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But you asked them the question "How often does the tank need emptying?" and they replied as if the question had been "How often do YOU empty the tank?". Two different questions and they answered the one they wanted you to ask, rather than the one you actually did ask.

They answered the only one they COULD give an answer to. How are they meant to guesstimate the way in which others use the property?

B'sides, the tank does not need emptying. The solids are what gets emptied. The problem here is not one of being full of solids, so needing emptying, but of a failed soakaway in an area and time of high ground water levels.

ali-t

I have had problems with mine over the last 18 months but nothing prior to that and it is entirely due to the water not being able to soak away effectively. Too much wet weather. Mine doesn't need the solids emptied just the water. Frustrating and potentially expensive but the joys of country living.

moneyistooshorttomention

Then maybe the question should have been worded "How often do tanks like this normally need emptying?", followed by "What way are you personally emptying it?" and OP might have been able to back them into a corner to answer truthfully with:

"One like this in this sort of location needs doing every x interval"

"We personally empty it by draining it out over neighbouring land every night by such-and-such means".

**********

It is very difficult to get truthful answers out of vendors. I recall a house I viewed one time, where I asked the vendor what the level of fuel bills on the house were. She could have given me a truthful answer, but instead "ran and ran" around the theme of "depends on the person". Okay, it will depend to some extent on the household living there, but she and I both knew that the question I was asking was "Is this house particularly heavy on fuel bills for any reason?" and she could have answered my question in two seconds flat by hauling out her fuel bills and going "There...you can see what I personally have paid recently".

Remembering that womans weasel words prompted me to ensure my latest fuel bills were to hand when I sold my last house and to turn round and say "My direct debit for both gas and electric per month is £x, which is a very 'standard' type amount for a house of this size/type". Question truthfully answered (before they'd even had the chance to think of it) and no Weasel Words....

NewShadow

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Good septic tanks look after themselves and save a lot of money. As a teenager in the early 70s my wife dug a 14' deep hole for a septic tank in a field at her dad's place. Her mum died in 1981, so for many years it was only her dad living there, but when the house was sold in 2008 the septic tank had never been emptied.

Just to agree with this sentiment - I lived in a house (on a hill) with a tank for 6/7 years, and other than needing emptying three times in the first year (due to ignorance and using bleaches) it never needed emptying - 3 adults, mostly working from home every day, plus guests.

Davesnave

nicter wrote: »

Unfortunately we have been told the water table here is very high therefore another soakaway is not feasible

It probably hasn't changed since the original soakaway was built.

It's just that the regs regarding suitability have changed, so the standard trial hole test, and the percolation test which should follow it, will be failures. Just about anywhere in the country would fail these tests at this time of year!

It's not a complete new installation, so in some places you could get away with a fresh soakaway from someone local who does these things with what we might call 'minimum paperwork.' That's what I did. With that, however, you'll have no guarantee.

The Environment Agency really wants everyone to go down the route of treatment plants now, and the main player installers are backing this all the way. After all, there is more certainty that they'll work and, of course, there's more money in those.

nicter

Thanks for all your answers. Just to add our neighbours on both sides have had to put in treatment plants for the same reason.
The cheapest quote we had was from a local guy who has said that soakaways in this area are not recommended due to high water table
Having read everything on this thread think we are going to have to go with the treatment plant and put it all down to experience
We are with you moneyistootighttomention re asking specific questions as and when we move
We had to replace the boiler here 4 weeks after moving in as well but that's another story !!
Do hope karma comes into play