Sunderland Royal Hospital - change of conditions?

System

The way the contract is written (and which the Trust agreed to) allows PE to change the terms at will. This is one of their newer contracts with less and less input by the client.

You cannot win by complaining to the Trust. They have taken the PE freebie.

You will win at POPLA so get the appeal in.

helpmeplease123123

Hello all you lovely helpful people!

The hospital has cancelled the charge!

There is indeed a 20 min grace at the Sunderland Royal hospital for all, but PE do not like you to know - from entrance on to site to exit you have 20 mins where ever you park, the hospital were very kind to speak to and understanding too - but they cant stop PE sending out PCN's and if you are not aware ( i was but started to question myself) of the 20 mins grace and just pay as i presume many do, then you have just been 'mugged off'!
I am going to write to the various people ( not sure who - trust/PALS/PE) to suggest they inform people by signage of the grace period, at least at the entrances to the hospital if no where else, whats it comming to when these ppc's hold back info so they can trick you into parking charges, and court threats etc?

System

You cannot win by complaining to the Trust. They have taken the PE freebie.

How wrong was that!

Glad to hear the mackems have some sense.

nitpicker99

Fruitcake wrote: »

It doesn't work if you stay longer than expected and it is a deliberate trap to catch the unwary. It is not fit for use and should be replaced by a fair pay on exit system, or free as per the advice of the Secretary of State.

Actually it does work. It's not perfect, but it's better than buying an extra hour or two upfront if you're unsure how long you'll be there.
Plenty of signs in the hospital pointing out the facility.

Good that the hospital has responded well - they did the same for me once.

Guys_Dad

I am pleased that you have had the charge cancelled.

The point I was making was that you wrote " I was within the grace period that they seem to have withdrawn without telling anyone".

Now, if they had changed the grace period as you suggested, I was querying just how they were going to tell people of the changes. A notice posted on or near the signs saying there was a change and other notices elsewhere would be reasonable, but for how long?

Certainly not more than a couple of weeks and if they had made any changes, then that could have been within your 6 week window.

The result of them publishing that you have a 20 minute grace period will inevitably lead to people who have taken, say, 23 minutes wingeing.

Fruitcake's solution is the best way forward - after free parking.

Fruitcake

nitpicker99 wrote: »

Actually it does work. It's not perfect, but it's better than buying an extra hour or two upfront if you're unsure how long you'll be there.
Plenty of signs in the hospital pointing out the facility.

Good that the hospital has responded well - they did the same for me once.

It only works if you know about it in advance or remember when you leave what time you arrived and remember to go and top up and have time to do it whereas a pay on exit system is absolutely fair. As I said the guess and top up system is not a fair system especially when PPCs make the signs and Ts and Cs as complicated and confusing as possible to deliberately catch people out. The charges are unenforceable so how is that an example of a system that works?


You say yourself that the system is not perfect yet it is very easy to make it so: -
Barrier at the car park entrance where you get a ticket. Barrier at the exit where you put your ticket. Twenty minutes free so you don't have to do anything other than put your ticket in the machine at exit. Pay stations at the hospital entrances where you put your ticket and pay only for the time used. No PCNs, no hassle.
This is exactly what we have at my local hospital and there are never any problems with scam PCNs. If there is ever a problem with the system the barriers are lifted and all parking is free until the system is fixed. All money goes to the hospital.


You say there are plenty of signs at the hospital in question but I doubt very much if they comply with the BPA CoP and I'm sure nothing on them forms a contract with the user that requires them to pay a hundred quid for a breach if a bunch of made up rules. For example, can the signs clearly be read from a moving car at all times of the day and night? Do they clearly state that there is a twenty minute grace/free period?

Redx

it should also be pointed out that in Jeremy Hunt`s autumn statement on this he said that hospitals should go to the pay on exit system and not to have these deterrent or guesstimate systems in place any more

hospitals should be forced to accept and follow his "guidelines" and we could have a common system that was fair to all (like the one fruitcake talks about and is present in some locations)

System

hospitals should be forced to accept and follow his "guidelines"

This is where reality and politics diverge. PE have signed the NHS up (and their other clients) for x years. A good example of this is Burton Hospitals where they make (FOI'd) £400K plus.

To agree to get rid of PE because Hunt says so will cost between £400K and £2mn. So they suck it up and let PE victimise others.

Northumbria read the contract and realised there was a break at 6 months - and did it. PE only look for stupid people and that is not just drivers.

martmonk

IamEmanresu wrote: »

This is where reality and politics diverge. PE have signed the NHS up (and their other clients) for x years. A good example of this is Burton Hospitals where they make (FOI'd) £400K plus.

To agree to get rid of PE because Hunt says so will cost between £400K and £2mn. So they suck it up and let PE victimise others.

Northumbria read the contract and realised there was a break at 6 months - and did it. PE only look for stupid people and that is not just drivers.

I agree with what you've said but am just going to be a little pedantic in regard to Northumbria:

There was no break clause, the contract contained a termination clause which was invoked in January last year, PE tried to fight it without success. The clause allowed the trust to cancel at anytime by giving three months notice.

The Sunderland contract predates the original Northumbria one so at least a small amount of credit should go to the Northumbria contracts/procurement dept for having the clause in there in the first place.

bod1467

Fruitcake wrote: »

You say yourself that the system is not perfect yet it is very easy to make it so: -
Barrier at the car park entrance where you get a ticket. Barrier at the exit where you put your ticket. Twenty minutes free so you don't have to do anything other than put your ticket in the machine at exit. Pay stations at the hospital entrances where you put your ticket and pay only for the time used. No PCNs, no hassle.

Or if ANPR is being used, then at least have the machine let you enter your reg on leaving and tell you how much you owe. (Which is what a car park not too far from me does).

The guessing game scheme currently in place is designed to entrap motorists into either underpaying (so get a PCN) or overpaying.