Right of access - Terraced House

fryerrobin

Hi,

I am considering buying an End of terrace which has a right of access (ROA) path across the back garden for a single neighbour (for taking out their bins etc). In principle I have no issue with this and in a perfect world where this ROA is never abused why would I.

My worry is that worst case scenario occurs where some drug lord yob moves in next door and starts using the access for everything and anything and does things like starts having his drugee buds walking trough at 2pm making noise and hanging around on the access path smoking etc.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get the ROA amended so it excludes certain activities like riding motorbikes, horses, smoking, large parties, lurking and other unpleasant things from taking place on the path?

I am doubtful it can be diverted in any way because of the layout of other nearby properties etc but I would like the wording of the ROA amended so it protects me and the property against future occurrences which might cause myself stress.

I also plan to own a dog in the property which wouldn't live in the garden but there is every chance it could be out in the garden while the neighbour uses access, and in the !!!!!! world we live in today I suppose I cannot protect against some idiot letting my dog out onto the road. Does anyone have any experience with ROA's while owning a dog?

TBagpuss

you would need to look at the wording of the right which should be shown on the Office Copy entries is for the property - it may well be that the right is limited to access on foot, which would exclude motorbikes etc.
Your solicitor will be able to advise about the limits of the right - it may be that it only permits 'passing and repassing' so would not permit people to hang about in your garden in any event.

Re: dog - you should be able to train your dog not to go out.

At a holiday cottage I stayed at last summer, where all of the houses in the terrace had access across the back gardens, several of them had put fences in so that there was in effect a footpath immediately behind the houses (with gates between each house's part, so effecively a 3 foot wide bit of patio) and then a hedge or fence with a gate into the rest of the garden, so that people using the access only used the fenced off path, and it was possible to shut the gate between the path / access and the garden. You could for added security put a bolt or padlock on the gate to prevent access to the main part of your garden, while allowing the right of way for your neighbour (and of course you could do that at any time, if you ended up with a new neighbour who you didn't get on with)

fryerrobin

TBagpuss wrote: »

you would need to look at the wording of the right which should be shown on the Office Copy entries is for the property - it may well be that the right is limited to access on foot, which would exclude motorbikes etc.
Your solicitor will be able to advise about the limits of the right - it may be that it only permits 'passing and repassing' so would not permit people to hang about in your garden in any event.

Re: dog - you should be able to train your dog not to go out.

At a holiday cottage I stayed at last summer, where all of the houses in the terrace had access across the back gardens, several of them had put fences in so that there was in effect a footpath immediately behind the houses (with gates between each house's part, so effecively a 3 foot wide bit of patio) and then a hedge or fence with a gate into the rest of the garden, so that people using the access only used the fenced off path, and it was possible to shut the gate between the path / access and the garden. You could for added security put a bolt or padlock on the gate to prevent access to the main part of your garden, while allowing the right of way for your neighbour (and of course you could do that at any time, if you ended up with a new neighbour who you didn't get on with)

I'll have to check on the exact wording but from memory it said "access for any reason", I'm not sure it was any more specific than that.

True, dogs can be trained, but they are animals, if some birk deliberately leaves the gate open and encourages the animal out then that's something else, im just thinking worst case though which is why I'm asking anyone with experience of this to reply in case they have a solution.

Unfortunately the access is really though the middle of the garden (so path is closer to the house than the end of the garden). Building a fence would make my garden very small.

Ultimately if I think it's going to be an issue I won't buy, I'm just trying to find ways where I can buy but have peace of mind.

ACG

Could you not navigate the path around thegarden?
So it comes in then they areguided by a fence to the top end of the garden, across and back down to the exit?

Probably a big expense and takes up a lot of your garden but it may work?

Gordon_Hose

It'll be a right of way, so you couldn't stop them using it. People can use it to take their bins out at 2pm and make noise with a fag in their mouth, whether they are druggies or not is irrelevant (that would be an issue for the Police).

No-one could ever hold a large party on a right of way, they'd be trespassing, it is, after-all, just a RoW over your land.

If you're this worried about it now, I wouldn't buy it myself. We looked at a house with the same RoW that allowed an elderly lady get her bins to the street, and with a small child we couldn't take the risk that the gate would get left open and little one get onto the road. We didn't buy it, obviously.

We do however currently live in an end terrace that is separated from next door by a passageway. We have RoW over their garden into the passageway to take the bins out and that is all we literally use it for once a week.

fryerrobin

ACG wrote: »

Could you not navigate the path around thegarden?
So it comes in then they areguided by a fence to the top end of the garden, across and back down to the exit?

Probably a big expense and takes up a lot of your garden but it may work?

Not sure, it depends whether thats legal etc, that's why I asked the question, maybe the route can be modified.

fryerrobin

Gordon_Hose wrote: »

It'll be a right of way, so you couldn't stop them using it. People can use it to take their bins out at 2pm and make noise with a fag in their mouth, whether they are druggies or not is irrelevant (that would be an issue for the Police).

No-one could ever hold a large party on a right of way, they'd be trespassing, it is, after-all, just a RoW over your land.

If you're this worried about it now, I wouldn't buy it myself. We looked at a house with the same RoW that allowed an elderly lady get her bins to the street, and with a small child we couldn't take the risk that the gate would get left open and little one get onto the road. We didn't buy it, obviously.

We do however currently live in an end terrace that is separated from next door by a passageway. We have RoW over their garden into the passageway to take the bins out and that is all we literally use it for once a week.

Your first 2 points, trespassing as far as I know is a civil offence, not really a police matter. Does access simply mean for access? i.e. you cant lurk about on the path?

I have heard about people putting locks on gates then giving the key to the neighbour, I'm not sure though whether that is just an agreement between the neighbour and themselves rather than something which is agreed in ink. I would want to lock the front gate as otherwise my backyard with have easy access for burglars etc to break in my house via the back garden where they can work in peace without being spotted.

I have also heard about "limited" and "essential" access, which both sound more secure than what I have.

I don't really want children and all sorts running through at any time of night just because they want to. I doubt it would happen but its not beyond reason.

shopaholicz

We used to live in and end of terrace with a right of way so that the middle terrace could bring their bins out and access their back garden. There was only one house that came through out back yard to get to theirs.

All was OK till we had children and they used to play outside. The "very nice man" next door used to leave the gate open all the time. Would still have been OK if he worked 9-5 but he was a van driver and used to come home 5-6 times a day. Not good in the summer as you had to be outside with them.

A couple of years later when the middle house had their own children, he used to shut their gate, so his own children couldn't get out, and leave mine open!!!!!!

We tried talking to them nicely, hoping they'd want to protect our 2, but nothing worked. Thankfully they eventually moved.

On the other hand, my mum once lived in a middle terrace and had a right of access through another back garden. They were lovely to mum. A young Asian family with 5 chilren, and they used to come and take her bin out for her every week without being asked to, and bring it back in.

Luck of the draw I guess, who your neighbours are. My advice is beware, even if you have good neighbours now they can move anytime.

stator

You can't really amend the clause without the consent of the person who has the benefit of it, ie your neighbour.

Does the wording mention a path, or a specific point on the boundary? If not and it's just general access, then you could possible route a path around the end of your garden, as long as it doesn't cause problems.

You can put fences and self-closing gates up, as long as your neighbour has access and it doesn't stop him using it.

You could also put up motion sensitive flood lights, that should put off any miscreants from hanging around your garden.

ciderboy2009

If they have a right to pass and repass for all intents and purposes then there's not a lot you can do - anyone who has the right can use the right of way at any time.
They are not required to close any gates and locking a gate (or attempting to move the right of way) could be classed as obstructing them.
Without the full wording I can't really add more but you might want to have a read of the Rights of Way forum on the Gardenlaw website.

Gordon_Hose

fryerrobin wrote: »

Your first 2 points, trespassing as far as I know is a civil offence, not really a police matter. Does access simply mean for access? i.e. you cant lurk about on the path?

I have heard about people putting locks on gates then giving the key to the neighbour, I'm not sure though whether that is just an agreement between the neighbour and themselves rather than something which is agreed in ink. I would want to lock the front gate as otherwise my backyard with have easy access for burglars etc to break in my house via the back garden where they can work in peace without being spotted.

I have also heard about "limited" and "essential" access, which both sound more secure than what I have.

I don't really want children and all sorts running through at any time of night just because they want to. I doubt it would happen but its not beyond reason.

You misunderstand, the "potential drugs issue" you're worried about is a Police matter.

A RoW is exactly that, they can use it to get to their property. Not stand around having a few beers with their mates.

You can put a lock on, but you need to ensure they can unlock it to exercise their right of way.

It's a RoW, anyone wanting to cross your land to get to the property can use it.

Have a read of this: http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/priv-r-o-w.html