PCN?? Elite Management need help??

skbytes

Hi Guys,

Had a PCN letter (see attached) through before Christmas (12/12/2014) for parking in No Parking Area on 09/09/2014.

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pcn_notice/


I need a little help on this, I will email them today an appeal the PCN. The car park has no marking in most parts of the car park (see pics below), so I didn't realise I was in a space where I wasn't allowed to park, plus the car park is a shambles (i will include pictures showing no marking and a skip in the car park).

Is there a template to use to appeal this PCN? I have seen one but wasn't sure if the template was for appealing a PCN or a POPLA appeal.

thanks in adavance, Shaun

PS. Below are more pics of the shambles of a car park!!

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk1/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk12/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk4/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk3/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk9/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/pk10/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/sk14/

selfkonfidence.com/gallery/photo-gallery-4/sk15/

Umkomaas

A few things.

Was there a windscreen ticket attached to the car?

Did the PPC send any photos of the ticket attached to the car?

Any correspondence sent to you by Elite ahead of the PCN Admin Centre letter?

skbytes

Umkomaas wrote: »

A few things.

Was there a windscreen ticket attached to the car?

Did the PPC send any photos of the ticket attached to the car?

Any correspondence sent to you by Elite ahead of the PCN Admin Centre letter?

Yes, there was a wind screen ticket but ignored it after being told to wait for the PCN to appeal it. I do not know if they took pictures of my car, all I have is a PCN as you can see from the links I've given.

No correspondence from Elite management ahead of the PCN admin letter.

thanks for your help.

Umkomaas

The letter you've had is the first and therefore becomes the NtK. So they are out of time to pursue the keeper under PoFA (needs to arrive between days 28 and 56 after the parking event). You need to add a sentence to that effect under bullet point d) of the initial appeal letter that. You can find the initial appeal in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky near the top of this forum's index.

Your photo of the NtK has been fully uploaded (I can only see the top bit of it). I could do with seeing the full picture (front and back) to see exactly what they are claiming.

No Keeper Liability is a valuable card in your hand for this case of yours, so do not make any statement that reveals who the driver was.

You also must complain to the DVLA and BPA (email addies in post #6 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky), that the NtK is being served out of time and that Elite had no reasonable cause to request and obtain your details and no justification for pursuing you now.

Let us see the full NtK before proceeding with the DVLA/BPA complaint.

skbytes

Umkomaas wrote: »

The letter you've had is the first and therefore becomes the NtK. So they are out of time to pursue the keeper under PoFA (needs to arrive between days 28 and 56 after the parking event). You need to add a sentence to that effect under bullet point d) of the initial appeal letter that. You can find the initial appeal in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky near the top of this forum's index.

Your photo of the NtK has been fully uploaded (I can only see the top bit of it). I could do with seeing the full picture (front and back) to see exactly what they are claiming.

No Keeper Liability is a valuable card in your hand for this case of yours, so do not make any statement that reveals who the driver was.

You also must complain to the DVLA and BPA (email addies in post #6 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky), that the NtK is being served out of time and that Elite had no reasonable cause to request and obtain your details and no justification for pursuing you now.

Let us see the full NtK before proceeding with the DVLA/BPA complaint.

Thanks so much for your help, here is the bottom part to the letter I received.

http://selfkonfidence.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/sk16.jpg

I have sent an email to them which is the same as the template that was recommended on this forum (see below).

---

PCN Admin Centre,
Manor House,
Lavender Park Road,
West Byfleet,
Surrey,
KT14 6NA
Date: 09/01/2015

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.: 910401431

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper there has not been any communication from your client "Elite Management (Midlands) Ltd" to the registered keeper since the issue date (09/09/2014) of the parking charge.
c). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
d). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
e). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
f). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
g). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice.
Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service and they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal“drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for mycosts. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,
Mr Shaun Kinnair

Umkomaas

Write back to them in response to their final paragraph 'If you were not the driver......' tell them you are under no obligation to tell them who the driver was, and as they've failed to meet the time deadline for any prospect of pursuing the keeper under PoFA 2012, they can go swivel'.

skbytes

Umkomaas wrote: »

Write back to them in response to their final paragraph 'If you were not the driver......' tell them you are under no obligation to tell them who the driver was, and as they've failed to meet the time deadline for any prospect of pursuing the keeper under PoFA 2012, they can go swivel'.

You are a star and thanks so much for your help :-)

I've just sent this below.

PCN Admin Centre,
Manor House,
Lavender Park Road,
West Byfleet,
Surrey,
KT14 6NA
Date: 09/01/2015

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.: 910401431

Further to my first email today and in regard to your communication by letter to me. In the last part of your letter you quote "If you were not the driver at the time, please contact us and tell us who was driving your vehicle at the time of the parking event"

I'm under no obligation to tell you who the driver was at the time, as you have failed to meet the time deadline for any prospect of pursuing the keeper under PoFA 2012.

Umkomaas

Good stuff skbytes. See how that goes, but don't be surprised if they are too much of a dullard to understand what you've written, and they go on, numpty-style, pursuing this.

No worries, we'll be alongside you as this progresses!

MRSJJ

Following this post.
I received a debt collector letter following an alleged PCN in July. I had no NTK.
Complained to BPA as per advice on this forum who contacted Elite. Received a response advising Elite had agreed to reissue the NTK allowing me an appeal process. A copy of which was attached to BPAs email.
Appealed using the template from forum both via email and by post. Five weeks have passed and I've received no response so would be interested to see the outcome of this post.

skbytes

Umkomaas wrote: »

Good stuff skbytes. See how that goes, but don't be surprised if they are too much of a dullard to understand what you've written, and they go on, numpty-style, pursuing this.

No worries, we'll be alongside you as this progresses!

Thanks my friend, I will let you know of the outcome 😀😀😀