What should I do - lack of building regulations

osaddict

Guys,

I'm a little stuck what to do, I have been progressing with a house purchase and my solicitor has informed me that the current owner purchased an indemnity insurance for an existing loft conversion. The owner did some work, breaking this indemnity so would get a new indemnity for me when I purchase.

Initially I wasn't too fussed about this until I learnt that indemnity for lack of building regulations means that you cannot carry out any works on the property which require planning permission - otherwise you run the risk you'll have to face costs to rectify or remove something or at the very least get a regulation certificate retrospectively.

I am not sure whether to:

1. Accept the indemnity, knowing that it may harm future sale potential as buyers may consider it carefully like I am.

2. Reject the indemnity, knowing this is probably going to be the end of the road for this house for me because I think there are other potential buyers and I think the seller isn't willing to go for it.

As an aside, if I go for option two I'm trying to work out what costs I will have to bear... at the moment I have paid for:

Mortgage Broker (£300)
Setup my mortgage, (free survey from Santander, cost of £250 they claim), added the setup fee to the mortgage.
Paid for searches for solicitor (£300 i think)

I've got a no complete no fee thing with the solicitor and I've not paid for a survey yet (a proper one).

I know £300 is lost to the solicitor but I'm not sure what other costs are lost at this point.

So yeah, I'd be interested to hear people's opinions and also the costs. To be honest, I'm not letting the costs have an impact on my decision - it's a £290k house, even if I had to wave goodbye to £5k or something I'd have to be certain when spending £290k! I guess I'd just like to know the financial implication of my decision.

I'll be asking my broker this too though, but he can be a bit slow to reply.

Thanks.

lincroft1710

Building regs are there to ensure that any extension or addition has been built to acceptable standards and one of these standards, especially with loft conversions is safety. Both the access and strength of the joists supporting the floor need to meet building regs requirements and you should be wary of any loft conversion where building regs were not obtained.

An indemnity policy won't compensate you if the loft floor collapses and you injure yourself.

Doozergirl

The planning department are separate to Building Control. You can have planning officers in, no problem.

You need to satisfy yourself, firstly, that the loft is safe. You could do this with a full survey or by asking a structural engineer to look over the loft conversion.


If you do have work done in the future, the reality is that building control have no resources to enforce against historical, perfectly safe building work. In 15 years of building, we have never had a building inspector ask us to do anything other than the work we have called them in to inspect. Clearly, if there is substandard work in the way of us getting to our end goal, it would be rectified as a matter of course.

If you are still worried about enforcemt, then you would just employ a private firm for building control on any work you do going forward. They live for private business and would never look at starting enforcent proceedings. It's not part of their business.

Your only real concern is to satisfy yourself that it is safe.

osaddict

Thank you both for the replies, the seller is stating that because it's classified as 'loft space' they're not going to get any certificate, however, 'loft space' that has stairs which are more substantial than the main house stairs, carpet and four veluxes isn't just 'loft space'.

Hoploz

The indemnity will not affect your future projects

osaddict

How can it not affect them? I have been told by my solicitor that any project which would require planning permission would firstly void the indemnity insurance policy and secondly run the (probably low) risk that the works without building control would need to be changed in someway, which as a loft conversion may end up being very costly (even if the risk is low, the cost is high).

Without building control I suppose as the first response stated I don't know how safe the works are, which even if you don't use them for say a bedroom or sudy even could be a risk for lower floors.

Some research suggests that insurance companies can think badly on these indemnity policies and potentially not pay out.

If course all of this is probably not going to happen but a wise buyer would allow and plan for their possibility before delving in and committing I'd have thought?

Thanks for the replies guys.

Toptom1

Please read this forum as I have just had the same problem and withdrew my offer.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5139022

Because it has no planning permission they have to advertise it as a loft space. My main concern was safety and after asking a favour of a builder to check the house the room wouldn't of passed building regs. Things you should be concerned about is has correct floor joists, insulation and felt etc between the roof tiles and the ceiling, Fire safety and the correct height through the loft. If they were to bothered about not getting planning permission then they proberly did it on the cheap and no good builder would build an attic without the correct procedures. The seller has reduced his house value from £140 to £120k and can't sell it. My advice is too cut your loses and run because it isn't worth it And it is not safe as far as you are concerened. If you do choose to buy you shall want a much reduced price and before you appy for planning permission from the council get a independent structural engineer to see if it would pass regs. Because if it doesn't the council can make you either take it out or repair it at a massive cost.

Doozergirl

Toptom, you have your permissions muddled up. Loft conversion rarely need planning permission so to say it can't be sold as a room without it is a total assumption for the OP of this thread, who is talking about Building Regulations.

A surveyor or structural engineer can assess for safety.

Planning departments and Building Control Departments do not speak to each other.

Advising to cut losses and run without any genuine experience or understanding is scaremongering. It's like a vicious circle on this board of people misunderstanding, pulling out and then advising like they know what they're talking about.

My convern for the OP is that solicitors often have no idea themselves of the differences in permissions and the requirements for them. They are not building professionals and often even ask the wrong questions (higlighted by the fact you're still in the dark despite having employed a professional to organise this stuff).

To me, it makes sense that the OP would not use LA building control in order to keep their policy valid, but not contacting the planning department makes little sense. I would want this clarified with the actual policy wording.

To give an example, most people can build a loft conversion or even an 8 metre extension without the need for planning permission, but building control should be involved. So the solicitor is effectively saying it's fine to build and wave the previous project under building control's nose if you get LABC in to inspect it, but it's not okay to contact the planning department who have nothing to do with building quality. It's nonsense.

Hoploz

I discussed this with my solicitor in some depth when I bought my house recently. Some internal alterations had been done and there was no completion certificate so the seller paid for an indemnity policy. A waste of time but necessary paperwork for the powers that be, ie lender. My solicitor said it would not affect any future development we might wish to do. She said even if the building inspector visited for a new project it is highly unlikely he would bother looking round the rest of the house. And in any case, she said they would not prosecute a homeowner, the only time they might would be if something was built unsafely, overhanging a pavement where a third party could be injured etc. It would be extremely rare for anyone to be prosecuted for failing to meet BR.
However, you need to satisfy yourself that the property is safe. What does your surveyor say? Any signs of poor workmanship or failing joists etc? Are there fire exits and smoke alarms, adequate ventilation etc? They can't tell how it was converted, but they can spot signs of weaknesses once they become apparent.

osaddict

I think Toptom1's comments are very helpful, ultimately if there isn't the required documentation for the work that has been done then there exists the possibility other corners have been cut - so, basically, we don't know if the conversion is safe or not. It seems this has issues for home insurance claims in some cases too.

Toptom1

If it was a conservatory or something then you may just blow it over but an attic is a major transformation. The origonal floor joists we're built for fixed stuff to stay in it and not built for moving stuff such as people with all their weight moving around. If a loved one or relative or even yourself fell through the roof who would you blame? Or even if your roofs leaks and caves in you ain't insured for that. I did ring direct line and told them exactly my predicament and they were quite happy to insure me tho. Indemnity policy doesn't cover you for much. If you really do like the house I get a builder to check it or do some research on what to look for and inspect it yourself. There should me a man hole thing thinig you can crawl through in the attic