Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

.string. wrote: »

Talking of tax levers and the skilled way they wil be used by the SNP Scottish Government,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11373197/Wealthy-Scots-considering-fleeing-high-SNP-taxes.html

Wealthy Scots 'considering fleeing high SNP taxes'[/ quote]

The rest of us will have to sit back and admire their handywork.

Go for it Swinney

whilst I don't believe everything that the SNP publish neither do I believe everything the Telegraph says,
however the SNP and in particular Shakey have never ventured to say how they see a 'fairer and more equal' Scotland will be created :
does that mean higher taxes for the richer people ?
or more benefits for the poorer people?
or both?

just love to know

Rinoa

Meanwhile Mr Salmond has been appearing on LBC, promising "honest straight-forward answers to listeners questions"

Turns out he was even more evasive than Shakey.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12098392/Alex-Salmond-dodges-independence-questions-on-LBC-debut.html#disqus_thread

Tromking

.string. wrote: »

Wealthy Scots 'considering fleeing high SNP taxes'

No, can't be true.
Scots are different to the English, they want to build a fairer more equal society!
There was even a poster on here who couldn't watch a GE leader debate because the questions from the English audience were an anathema to her Scottish social democratic sensibilities!

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
I think an independent Scotland would put far, far more effort into what happens when oil runs out or isn't economically viable anymore ( renewables ). Would welcome immigration ( to a point ) due to an aging population and declining tax base. Has already stopped 'right to buy' and are building socially rented housing again/looking into rent controls. Just for starters. We view all of the above as 'good' in Scotland. The Conservatives have cancelled a lot of investments they said they would keep if elected ( Carbon Capture etc ).. I could go on. But I can't honestly be bothered.
...

How does investing in renewables create more export opportunities for Scotland? I mentioned before that the largest producer of wind turbine products is Danish, and manufactures in a host of places but not Scotland. UK does profit from this company by hosting the funding company...which is in London!

What are those new immigrants going to do to bring in export business?

I'm not saying there are easy answers to finding new export business, but those aren't answers you offer.

It's just waffle and flannel.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think an independent Scotland would put far, far more effort into what happens when oil runs out or isn't economically viable anymore ( renewables ). Would welcome immigration ( to a point ) due to an aging population and declining tax base. Has already stopped 'right to buy' and are building socially rented housing again/looking into rent controls. Just for starters. We view all of the above as 'good' in Scotland. The Conservatives have cancelled a lot of investments they said they would keep if elected ( Carbon Capture etc ).. I could go on. But I can't honestly be bothered.

nobody in the world has got carbon capture to work economically

what special quality do you think that scotland can bring to the table?

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

As we've seen, the problems are insurmountable. It's just sums.

The newspapers were writing when oil prices were north of $100/bbl and now they're south of $30/bbl and falling. The big risk that S&P identified has come to pass.

I realise that you feel a bit of a fool because you've identified a really authoritative source that you thought supported your position and it turns out that it shows that S&P agreed with mine from two years ago and that I was ultimately right.

So how are you planning on selling splendid, self-imposed poverty to your fellow countrymen and women? Or are you just planning to hope that the problem sorts itself out and continue to quote ever more out of date figures?

No. I don't feel a fool. Pointing out that there is much more to the Scottish economy than oil prices is never foolish. It's factual.

Time to move away from oil, and start afresh. Something that can never hope to happen under the union. You may see oil prices as 'the' defining reason as to why Scotland could never hope to achieve independence. However, the other side of the coin is that other's see independence as an opportunity to get away from 'over reliance' on oil prices and an example of just how very badly the union has used Scottish natural resources over decades. Capiche ?

You state only one side of the debate. Below is a good example of the other. ( article too long to quote in full ).

First of all, nothing but nothing demonstrates better the utter folly of letting the UK take control of our natural resources than the failure to invest the oil revenues. Independence in 1970 when the British were hiding reports of how rich we’d be and their agents were lying about oil’s value, would have brought in a Scottish regime to husband the bonanza, create the oil fund that was requested and given us forty years of wealth, a fund to protect us from all seasons and way of avoiding the humiliation of our own money paying for Thatcher’s unemployment cheques.

Instead we would have worried about coping with an overhyped currency and searched for ways of diversifying our economy. We could have lent to England at preferential rates.

The question never asked by the Unionists is: If Scotland relies on subsidy, why should this be so after 300 years of Union? How could oil be discovered and £300bn taken in taxes (at today’s prices) and still Scotland isn’t prosperous? That part is presumably down to our own ineptitude, not the incompetence of Westminster who had the control of oil throughout. Indeed, to make sure oil could not be claimed by Scots, the British set up a new economic zone, the UK Continental Shelf in 1964, to which oil income was assigned. That really was Scotland’s clue that we couldn’t trust the Brits.

So the lack of an oil fund today as the price plunges is a standing condemnation of British policy every bit as much as a mark of Scotland’s relative reliance on the black stuff. No Scot should let them get away with sneering at the impact of the oil price when not a bent penny of the windfall has been saved...

...And shouldn’t we take comfort from the obvious fact that our economy hasn’t collapsed in on itself. In a difficult global environment Scotland’s economy is robust and diverse and a magnet for inward investment. We head into what some forecasters warn will be a year of global economic Argmageddon in reasonable health and, I believe, with a united sense of purpose built around the Yes movement. It isn't zealotry that keeps SNP support high but and informed understanding of the incompetence and corruptions of a Treasury-run economy that is against our national interest, allied to a sense of solidarity built on pride and renewed dignity. We believe we can overcome the short-term difficulties.

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2016/01/14/my-inner-inventive-scot/

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That appears to be the Indy campaign's plan so far....

No. Not quite.

Ireland’s economy grew by 7 per cent in the third quarter of 2015 compared with the same period in 2014. Britain’s grew by 0.5 per cent. There was increasing output in all business sectors and Ireland is now the poster boy for economic recovery – population 4.5 million and they still haven’t properly exploited their oil reserves.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

nobody in the world has got carbon capture to work economically

what special quality do you think that scotland can bring to the table?

Osborne seemed to think there was potential when releasing the Conservative election manifesto. Then all investment cancelled.

The UK government has cancelled its £1bn competition for carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology just six months before it was due to be awarded, breaking a pledge in the Conservative party’s election manifesto.

The abandonment of a technology championed by David Cameron and seen as vital in tackling global warming will be an embarrassment to the UK, just days before a major UN climate change summit in Paris. Industry figures called the move “devastating” and while experts said it would make meeting the UK’s binding carbon cuts “almost impossible” and more expensive.

Two projects had been in the running to build plants demonstrating CCS at commercial scale. One was backed by Shell and SSE at Peterhead.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/25/uk-cancels-pioneering-1bn-carbon-capture-and-storage-competition

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Osborne seemed to think there was potential when releasing the Conservative election manifesto. Then all investment cancelled.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/25/uk-cancels-pioneering-1bn-carbon-capture-and-storage-competition

Gosh do you always believe Cameron (presumably comes from always believing the SNP)

but back to the substantive point : do you think scotland has special skills, knowledge etc in carbon capture research and technology when the entire world has failed to succeed?

Being a very small country you won't have the financial muscle to research/develop many technologies so it makes no sense to spend your limited funds where you have no special advantages.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No. I don't feel a fool. Pointing out that there is much more to the Scottish economy than oil prices is never foolish. It's factual.

Time to move away from oil, and start afresh. Something that can never hope to happen under the union. You may see oil prices as 'the' defining reason as to why Scotland could never hope to achieve independence. However, the other side of the coin is that other's see independence as an opportunity to get away from 'over reliance' on oil prices and an example of just how very badly the union has used Scottish natural resources over decades. Capiche ?

You state only one side of the debate. Below is a good example of the other. ( article too long to quote in full ).

http://derekbateman.co.uk/2016/01/14/my-inner-inventive-scot/

of course an independent scotland will slash spending and start saving
which part of the SNP manifesto did I miss?