Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I still cannot reconcile all the leaders descending en masse to Scotland just prior to the vote to beg us to remain. It was very bizarre and left me thinking why on earth keep us unless it is for some sort of benefit. If we are such a drain they'd have happily waved us off but no......

only the leaders can tell you why they descended on scotland but there are good reasons why the UK is better as a single entity even if it means the English subsidising the scots for all eternity.


1. scotland will not be in a position (or willing) to defend their airspace so will allow Russian aircraft to overfly scotland at will : scotland is very close to England which will make the chance of a conflict more likely.

2. in the future who knows the threats we may face: a sea border is easier to defend than a land border

3. no PM or UK leader would wish their defining legacy to be the PM that saw the UK break up

4. The huge difficulties if Iscotland joined Schegen : would we need a patrolled border with border posts and barbed wire like those springing up all over Europe

5. if the RoUK leave the EU I guess we would have a new unwelcome industry springing up : smuggling
this would be no benefit to Scotland or RoUK.

6. the need to relocate our nuclear subs

kabayiri

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I think we all understand falling oil revenues means our finances are not quite as healthy.

Perhaps this article will show a different take on the never ending oil saga.

Yes, it's from a pro Indy group but all I can say is point out the flaws and I will ponder them.

Cheers.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/without-oil-would-scotland-already-be-independent/

Interesting. The article fails to mention the tax breaks introduced by GO in the Easter budget of 2015. (see link below)

The breaks are worth £1.3bn+ over 5 years. This is at a time when revenues to the treasury from oil register just a few hundred millions a year.

Without this assistance, even more jobs would be lost. Yet, it doesn't warrant a mention....strange that!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11480374/Budget-2015-tax-breaks-for-North-Sea-oil-industry.html

.string.

kabayiri wrote: »

Interesting. The article fails to mention the tax breaks introduced by GO in the Easter budget of 2015. (see link below)

The breaks are worth £1.3bn+ over 5 years. This is at a time when revenues to the treasury from oil register just a few hundred millions a year.

Without this assistance, even more jobs would be lost. Yet, it doesn't warrant a mention....strange that!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11480374/Budget-2015-tax-breaks-for-North-Sea-oil-industry.html

Yes, it grates somewhat. The UK Government takes action for the UK to recover economically from the economic downturn and specifically the drop in oil prices and consequently production. As as result of these measures the UK is doing relatively well, particularly Scotland. But there's no acknowledgment, just vainglorious spin.

Had the Yes vote won there is no way that UK support to the oil industry would have been given, nor the various other goodies that have contributed to economic recovery "North of the Border". No new ship building nor any effort in improving "powers". Seen in that light the second and third paragraphs are exposed as nationalist spin and nothing else. By August last year, many firms would already have quit Scotland, investment would have dried up, negotiations on the SNP's extraordinary demands would be generating extreme bad feeling and the UK would be pondering on how quickly to extracate itself from economic knock on effects from Scotland.

No Leanne, I am not wishing it, nor are those scare stories, they are what I sincerely believe to be the truth, unpleasant though it may be.

Leanne1812

kabayiri wrote: »

Interesting. The article fails to mention the tax breaks introduced by GO in the Easter budget of 2015. (see link below)

The breaks are worth £1.3bn+ over 5 years. This is at a time when revenues to the treasury from oil register just a few hundred millions a year.

Without this assistance, even more jobs would be lost. Yet, it doesn't warrant a mention....strange that!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11480374/Budget-2015-tax-breaks-for-North-Sea-oil-industry.html

I'm sure we are all grateful for the gov help and assistance to see this industry through this difficult time. We could also say they have a vested interest and a responsibility to act & support when we have all had tremendous benefit from it.

Leanne1812

.string. wrote: »

Yes, it grates somewhat. The UK Government takes action for the UK to recover economically from the economic downturn and specifically the drop in oil prices and consequently production. As as result of these measures the UK is doing relatively well, particularly Scotland. But there's no acknowledgment, just vainglorious spin.

Had the Yes vote won there is no way that UK support to the oil industry would have been given, nor the various other goodies that have contributed to economic recovery "North of the Border". No new ship building nor any effort in improving "powers". Seen in that light the second and third paragraphs are exposed as nationalist spin and nothing else. By August last year, many firms would already have quit Scotland, investment would have dried up, negotiations on the SNP's extraordinary demands would be generating extreme bad feeling and the UK would be pondering on how quickly to extracate itself from economic knock on effects from Scotland.

No Leanne, I am not wishing it, nor are those scare stories, they are what I sincerely believe to be the truth, unpleasant though it may be.

String, I'm not suggesting you would revel should Scotland be faced with hardship and/or difficult times. I genuinely believe you would be saddened because of your attachment to the union.

I can see why you're saying it grates but to turn that on its head the whole of the U.K. has benefitted greatly from oil and we've all shared the proceeds yet now the industry is in trouble we have to bow down and kow tow for the support given. That grates a bit too you know.

I don't want nor like ill feeling between our countries but being the 'little' brother does sometimes feel like we should just be quiet, follow the leader and do what we're told is best.

kabayiri

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I'm sure we are all grateful for the gov help and assistance to see this industry through this difficult time. We could also say they have a vested interest and a responsibility to act & support when we have all had tremendous benefit from it.

You misunderstand my concern.

The article you linked to attempts to put a wider context to the Scottish economy, to illustrate a robust nature providing resilience.

That's fine, but to provide balance it should also explain what support mechanisms are needed for those areas of the economy which are not so resilient. Oil production is definitely one of these areas. You can't just turn the oil field output on and off, mothball a few rigs. You lose skills and support networks.

Leanne1812

kabayiri wrote: »

You misunderstand my concern.

The article you linked to attempts to put a wider context to the Scottish economy, to illustrate a robust nature providing resilience.

That's fine, but to provide balance it should also explain what support mechanisms are needed for those areas of the economy which are not so resilient. Oil production is definitely one of these areas. You can't just turn the oil field output on and off, mothball a few rigs. You lose skills and support networks.

Ok, gotcha.

Does it not go without saying that being a volatile resource gov assistance may well be needed in a time such as this?

Was the article flawed besides this point?

dktreesea

Leanne1812 wrote: »

String, I'm not suggesting you would revel should Scotland be faced with hardship and/or difficult times. I genuinely believe you would be saddened because of your attachment to the union.

I can see why you're saying it grates but to turn that on its head the whole of the U.K. has benefitted greatly from oil and we've all shared the proceeds yet now the industry is in trouble we have to bow down and kow tow for the support given. That grates a bit too you know.

I don't want nor like ill feeling between our countries but being the 'little' brother does sometimes feel like we should just be quiet, follow the leader and do what we're told is best.

Seriously? There's nothing "little brother" about Scotland. I live in Scotland (born in England). If ever there was a case of the tail wagging the dog in the UK it would have to be the power of Scotland over England. The Scots kow- towing to anyone? Not in your wildest dreams.


As to Westminster, their attitude to English issues is so poor it's outrageous. How could people in Yorkshire feel anything but disgust at Cameron saying they are going to increase funding for flood defences from a paltry £100 million to £280 million, for the whole of Yorkshire, a county with a similar population to Scotland, when the budget for flood defences up here for one river alone, the Water of Leith in Edinburgh, is £85 million and counting?


Look at what happens with social housing. England selling all theirs off as quickly as possible. Scotland keeping their houses and building plenty more. Why stop there? How about further education? Better to live in Scotland than England if you want to go to Uni.


When exactly does Scotland do what Westminster tells it?


Even private companies get in on the act. For a few months last year Lidl was giving people anything form £5 of a £20 spend up to £5 of a £35 spend each week. Lidl, mind you. One of the cheapest supermarkets. Was this available in England? No.


I'd like an independent Scotland. But I can understand those who voted no. Every time a half sensible question was asked, like what happens at the border (mostly those who live in Scotland but travel south to England each day to work) and will we have to go through passport control, people were told to "trust the vision". And surely the initial currency (presuming the later intention would have been to join the Euro) should have been the Scottish pound, not the English one? Not to mention the stupid militants on the "yes" vote side saying anyone who voted no was a traitor. That decided a fair few Scots to vote no, I would have thought. "Being told" by anyone, about anything, is definitely not a way of life up here.

kabayiri

Leanne1812 wrote: »

...
Was the article flawed besides this point?

I don't know. I don't understand this point , for example
"Additionally, it adds weight to calls to invest now to turn the North East into a world centre for renewables energy, preparing for the time when oil does become depleted."

What does that mean precisely?

One expensive component of wind turbines are the blades. Are we suggesting they are made in Scotland?

LM WindPower are the biggest suppliers of components and services to the wind turbine industry. Look at this from their website as to where their blades are manufactured

"Our global manufacturing footprint includes wind turbine blade factories in China, USA, India, Canada, Denmark, Spain, Poland and Brazil. "

No mention of Scotland there. They are headquartered in Denmark, with fund management from London.

Is the future of a prosperous Scotland another big industry to replace oil&gas, or a thousand diversified but successful smaller businesses?

Which strategy enables a country the size of Scotland to ride out fluctuations in demand?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Was the article flawed besides this point?

Yes.


..........