Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Leanne1812

This is all getting ridiculous again. Who told lies, who told the biggest lies, who's the worst liar? ......

Everyone involved on both sides was economical with the truth to suit their agenda. There, I've said it. Are you happy an acolyte has broken the golden rule? I can see failings in the Yes campaign - if there weren't any we'd have romped it! Equally for No to lose so much ground you have to accept failings there too. It was ultimately a matter of trust. I've said it all along, who did/do you trust.

The referendum is over and done with. I think we should save the neverendum chat for if and when it comes back on the table.

I still don't quite understand why most here cannot see why scots like the SNP. I can only speak for myself when I say I do feel they are the best we have here, they really do have the residents of Scotland's best interests at heart. Convince me they don't anyone.....convince me supporting another party is in my/my nations best interests. What would/could a different party offer that they don't? I have no idea, all I hear is whinging about the terrible SNP. I wish the other parties would be more vocal about what they are for instead of what they are against. Negative politics does not work for me.

Yesterday Swinney was condemned for not using the limited tax 'powers' he has yet when pushed I believe not one other leader would commit that they would have raised/lowered taxes. Who do you believe...... we hear the griping every day about their failings yet we like them. Think about it.

Leanne1812

CLAPTON wrote: »

in the same way you refuse to recognise the issues round currency union and independence, you also avoid the essential issues round debt and scotland.
it's very simple : the difference between what you spend and your income is funded by debt : SNP will spend more than their income.

At the moment that is fine, because the English bail you out: but if you want a decent independent future you will need to make some painful realistic choices.
No need at the moment as your game plan is to default on all debts but after that you need a realistic financial plan (its short name is austerity).

Why go over this old ground again?

It is over.

The whole of the U.K. is not living within its means.

The game plan is news to me. Can you provide a link. As I remember at the time it was a fair share of debts & assets.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Still evading the issue. Did the SNP modify their oil-dominated budget forecast prior to the referendum? Go on Shakey prove it.

No the White Paper was never revised, nor where oil prices.

Nonsense, the arrow is still stickking there; the financial mountain got bigger.I'm sure that if there ever was another Nevererendum that there would be SNP claims about an imminent explosion in oil prices and a huge oil well that had just been about to be discovered in Sturgeon's back garden

Independence support doesn't go up and down in line with oil prices. The trends are opposites.

And for the EU there would still be ludicrous claims about membership of the EU without adopting the Euro and without any loss of fiscal authority and so on. But if the EU is a "busted flush" why the current SNP fuss on Brexit/No-Brexit?

If there's another referendum, Scotland getting kicked out on the midnight of a Yes vote and 5 million EU citizen's stripped of citizenship overnight ( I'd contend that this was they ludicrous position )... wouldn't be factor. As just by fact of being in a union within the UK could see Scotland out of the EU anyway. ie a 'busted flush' when it comes to any future referendum.

The currency will remain a problem and you know it, Natland will probably need to set one up for itselb. Don't hoard any Scottish pounds. Shakey.

There will be no currency union. Nor will one be asked for. Any currency debates regarding an independent Scotland's future will take place among the Yes side. As they are doing right now in fact.

Re your remarks about the White Paper being up front and the quotation you gave. I recognise, as much as anyone a bit of PTA when I see it and something published in November 2013 does not qualify as being up front when it comes to coming clean when things changed in June of 2014 before the Referendum in September

Another bit of " That was yesterday" Shakey

Oil prices aren't predictable. No-one predicted a long term downturn. The referendum in Sept 14 came only weeks after the first fall. They had very little impact on overall Yes support anyway. As shown below, they never have.

However, it is clear that support for independence is far higher than when we began polling in the late 1970s. On the eve of the first referendum in March 1979, only 14% of Scots backed ‘a completely independent Scottish Assembly, separate from England’,....

In the early 1980s, support for independence was relatively low, never exceeding 25%, coinciding with a time of internal ructions and poor electoral performance of the SNP (support for the party fell to 11.7% at the 1983 General Election). It was not until the later years of the Thatcher government and, more specifically, the introduction of the poll tax in Scotland, that support for independence began to grow. In each poll between late 1988 and the mid-1990s support did not fall below 30% and reached 40% in 1991 and 1992....

...Even after the election of a minority SNP government in 2007, support for independence slipped, going as low as 20% in our November 2009 poll. Perhaps Scots thought that a nationalist government would do a sufficiently good job in representing their views without the need for separation from the rest of the UK...

...Since the election of a majority SNP government after the 2011 Holyrood elections, support for independence has risen. The promise of a referendum at some point during the current parliamentary term has meant that the issue has risen up the political agenda.

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2935/35-years-of-Scottish-attitudes-towards-independence.aspx

It's at 50/50 now. A very interesting historical article on the peaks and troughs. Oil prices have never been any 'arrow to the heart of independence'. In fact all peaks and troughs coincide with political ( Conservative governments ? )..or constitutional changes.

Shakethedisease

Leanne1812 wrote: »

This is all getting ridiculous again. Who told lies, who told the biggest lies, who's the worst liar? ......

Everyone involved on both sides was economical with the truth to suit their agenda. There, I've said it. Are you happy an acolyte has broken the golden rule? I can see failings in the Yes campaign - if there weren't any we'd have romped it! Equally for No to lose so much ground you have to accept failings there too. It was ultimately a matter of trust. I've said it all along, who did/do you trust.

The referendum is over and done with. I think we should save the neverendum chat for if and when it comes back on the table.

I still don't quite understand why most here cannot see why scots like the SNP. I can only speak for myself when I say I do feel they are the best we have here, they really do have the residents of Scotland's best interests at heart. Convince me they don't anyone.....convince me supporting another party is in my/my nations best interests. What would/could a different party offer that they don't? I have no idea, all I hear is whinging about the terrible SNP. I wish the other parties would be more vocal about what they are for instead of what they are against. Negative politics does not work for me.

Yesterday Swinney was condemned for not using the limited tax 'powers' he has yet when pushed I believe not one other leader would commit that they would have raised/lowered taxes. Who do you believe...... we hear the griping every day about their failings yet we like them. Think about it.

Amen. It really is just going over and over old ground.

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Why go over this old ground again?

It is over.

The whole of the U.K. is not living within its means.

The game plan is news to me. Can you provide a link. As I remember at the time it was a fair share of debts & assets.

the ground to go over again and again is indeed whether we lives within our means and what the future of an independent scotland would be.

Part of the UK is trying to reduce the difference between spending and income and some parts are dedicated to not trying. In fact they call even trying to reduce the deficit as 'austerity'- absurd I know.

The game plan was for Scotland to default on its debts on whatever faux reason seemed good at the time. (you may recall a has been called Salmond saying it and often repeated even on these boards.)
Remember you personally are keen on free prescriptions, free uni education, more council housing, more under occupied social housing (but not for poor people in private housing), more infrastructure spending etc and all with no extra taxation.

What do you mean 'its over' : are you conceding that Scotland will never be independent : have you changed sides?

Leanne1812

CLAPTON wrote: »

the ground to go over again and again is indeed whether we lives within our means and what the future of an independent scotland would be.

Part of the UK is trying to reduce the difference between spending and income and some parts are dedicated to not trying. In fact they call even trying to reduce the deficit as 'austerity'- absurd I know.

The game plan was for Scotland to default on its debts on whatever faux reason seemed good at the time. (you may recall a has been called Salmond saying it and often repeated even on these boards.)
Remember you personally are keen on free prescriptions, free uni education, more council housing, more under occupied social housing (but not for poor people in private housing), more infrastructure spending etc and all with no extra taxation.

What do you mean 'its over' : are you conceding that Scotland will never be independent : have you changed sides?

Why do you care so much about Scotland becoming independent? What does the currency union have to do with living within our means? Is it just another chance to slate Scotland?

Scotland & her government want to tackle the deficit too but it appears you've not been listening or paying attention.

It's over. I'm over it. Are you though?

If it happens to come to the fore in the future I'm happy to discuss it then. No point otherwise is there?

Share of debts & assets as I previously said. Selective memory?

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Why do you care so much about Scotland becoming independent? What does the currency union have to do with living within our means? Is it just another chance to slate Scotland?

Scotland & her government want to tackle the deficit too but it appears you've not been listening or paying attention.

It's over. I'm over it. Are you though?

If it happens to come to the fore in the future I'm happy to discuss it then. No point otherwise is there?

Are you saying that the independence debate is over for your lifetime?
I assume you won't be discussing a new referendum come May16?

If you don't know what currency union has to do with living within your means, then you haven't learnt anything about what currency union means. (sadly no surprise there).

Does the SNP commitment to reducing the deficit extend, to stop using the word austerity to describe a balanced budget?

.string.

‘Loser’ Trump fires back at ‘irrelevant’ Salmond

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/loser-trump-fires-back-at-irrelevant-salmond-1-3977284

“Does anyone care what this man thinks? He’s a has-been and totally irrelevant. The fact that he doesn’t even know what’s going on in his own constituency says it all. We have a permanent clubhouse and the business is flourishing.

Hey what's that?

If Salmond is a complete has-been, then he's our complete has-been.

Trump needs to mind his own business.

===========

With that, I take my leave for less frequent, if intermittent, posting. I'm off. -- we are visiting our daughter over Christmas.

Merry Chistmas everybody, may all fantasies remain so.:)

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

Trump needs to mind his own business.

Perhaps Scottish politicians shouldn't become embroiled in US politics.

Leanne1812

CLAPTON wrote: »

Are you saying that the independence debate is over for your lifetime?
I assume you won't be discussing a new referendum come May16?

If you don't know what currency union has to do with living within your means, then you haven't learnt anything about what currency union means. (sadly no surprise there).

Does the SNP commitment to reducing the deficit extend, to stop using the word austerity to describe a balanced budget?

I've no idea if the debate will arise again in my lifetime. Do you?

Best not to make any assumptions. The future is unknown.

Why are we still discussing currency? That was an issue pre referendum, it's not relevant now.

Are any of the parties committing to doing that?