Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

princeofpounds

What I find genuinely interesting is that the SNP command a substantial majority when most oppose their central policy.

In terms of political economics it's actually rather rational. If you have a special interest group, which in some senses Scotland is, then you basically want representation that is as selfish as it possibly can be without killing the golden goose.

I do wish smaller government and more free enterprise were seen as the way forward for Scotland rather than the government spending/oil spending choice it seems to have right now.

But post-industrial regional economies so often get trapped in this statist midset; Detroit, Liverpool, Wallonia.

michaels

Is the SNP a single issue party? Don't they have a slate of policies to the left of Scottish labour?

For Scots it is a no brained, if the SNP are in a position to put ed into no 10 in May they will be able to negotiate a settlement that will make Barnett look mean, devolved control over anything that matters and retain the GBP and boe...you got it Alex...oh and let's boost the Barnett subsidy and not tie it to the rather unreliable oil price. A mway bigger win than the referendum would have been.

elantan

Generali wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Scottish people recently asked whether they fancied being an independent country or not? IIRC, 25% more people wanted to remain in the UK than wanted to split.

Surely it would be rather undemocratic to force independence onto Scotland in the face of such very strong opposition.

What I find genuinely interesting is that the SNP command a substantial majority when most oppose their central policy.

well the thing you have to remember is it wasnt really that huge a mojority when you look at the numbers, there is also many people that are very suspicious of the process, change in a progressive society is also inevitable and what certainly came from the independence was people want change

ruggedtoast

elantan wrote: »

well the thing you have to remember is it wasnt really that huge a mojority when you look at the numbers, there is also many people that are very suspicious of the process, change in a progressive society is also inevitable and what certainly came from the independence was people want change

If they wanted change they should have voted for independence. They voted to get either Cameron or Milliband. Exactly like the rest of us are stuck with.

elantan

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If they wanted change they should have voted for independence. They voted to get either Cameron or Milliband. Exactly like the rest of us are stuck with.

oh i agree and hell slap it into them as far as i am concerned ... they had their chance and blew it

elantan

Generali wrote: »

It was a massive majority: 1,600,000 wanted independence and 2,000,000 didn't. 25% more wanted to remain in the UK. That's pretty massive.

Change is inevitable in today's world but that doesn't mean a change towards independence. Given the way that the world's economy seems to be moving at the moment, I suspect the main driving factors behind Scottish independence are waning pretty fast.

Yes
1,617,989

No
2,001,926

the exact numbers if you will

living in Scotland i would say that the idea of independence is if anything gaining strength, it isnt going away, it is getting stronger and it will happen

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

23.7% more voting No than Yes is still huge.

As for the rest? It's just an assertion.

When the referendum was held, the UK was recovering from the worst recession in generations, Scotland's fiscal position in revenue terms was as strong as it's ever likely to be and the UK had a weak, Tory led Government. That is about a good a set of circumstances that Yes were ever likely to get and they still missed by a mile.

The only way for Scotland to get independence now is for the SNP to entirely disregard the democratic vote in Scotland and try to force a (Labour?) Government to agree to make Scotland independent despite a huge majority of Scots and Britons wanting the Union to remain intact.

Lib, Lab and Cons all ruled out a Neverendum and rightly so. The referendum has proved to be expensive and divisive and another one, if enough Scots favour one, should wait at least a generation.

They weakened that proposition quite considerably when they all panicked a couple of days before the referendum and made some kind of quasi devo max vow to try and bribe people to vote No.

Considering they now can't even agree on what it was they were avowedly promising, I would say that gives the SNP a reasonable amount of leverage.

I wish they had just kept their traps shut. I never wanted Scotland to stay in the Union at any cost. They already get more than enough and I dont think the Three Stooges had any right to promise them more without referendum of our own in the ROUK.

The whole thing was embarrassing and made the government appear panicky and weak.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

23.7% more voting No than Yes is still huge.

As for the rest? It's just an assertion.

When the referendum was held, the UK was recovering from the worst recession in generations, Scotland's fiscal position in revenue terms was as strong as it's ever likely to be and the UK had a weak, Tory led Government. That is about a good a set of circumstances that Yes were ever likely to get and they still missed by a mile.

The only way for Scotland to get independence now is for the SNP to entirely disregard the democratic vote in Scotland and try to force a (Labour?) Government to agree to make Scotland independent despite a huge majority of Scots and Britons wanting the Union to remain intact.

Lib, Lab and Cons all ruled out a Neverendum and rightly so. The referendum has proved to be expensive and divisive and another one, if enough Scots favour one, should wait at least a generation.

Lib, Lab and Cons are all declining as well in terms of their core voters. And it's a mistake to think that the politics of yesterday will be the politics of tomorrow.

Things did change after the referendum. Who would ever have predicted in 2004, just 10 years ago that the SNP would even be considered as some sort of threat to Labour in Holyrood, never mind in 2011.. who would have forseen they now are considered as serious candidates in the balance of power in Westminster in terms of UK seats ? However remote the chance of it happening. The fact that it is shows just how far things have shifted in less than 10 years.

A generation.. I'm not sure. Things seem to be accelerating really quickly. Whether it eases off, or continues apace seems to hinge on this election. Because if the SNP do do what the polls are pointing to ( and I'm not convinced myself, I think even 20 odd seats would be a tremendous result for the SNP from 6 ).. I think Labour will also give up in Scotland. Just like the Tories did in 1997 after a similiar wipeout. Jim Murphy is the last throw of the dice..

@elantan am enjoying it too. But what I really want to know is what Jim Murphy is going to do to become an MSP ? He needs to announce soon if he's standing again as a Westminster MP. And if he does, then his constituents will know he only plans being there for a year until the Holyrood elections in 2016, ( not a vote winner I'd imagine ). But if he stands down, and lets someone else stand in May he risks the seat falling and himself without a seat in Westminster OR Holyrood. He's been very coy so far. And with other Westminster candidates of all parties being declared left, right and center last few days. He hasn't got long to make a jump one way or the other.

Wonder what jiggery pokery they'll employ there. Because I can't see any completely safe way for him to do it. They'll have to come up with something very soon though. Am not sure he's had much of a 'bounce'.

* Joins with the popcorn.

Scottish voting intentions for the May 2015 UK general election (Survation, 12th-16th January) :

SNP 46% (-2)
Labour 26% (+2)
Conservatives 14% (-2)
Liberal Democrats 7% (+2)
UKIP 4% (n/c)
Greens 3% (+2)

Holyrood constituency voting intention SNP 50% (-1%); LAB 26% (+1%); CON 12% (-3%); LD 6% (+1%); OTHER 6% (+1%)

SCOTS want Labour to govern in coalition with the SNP at Westminster, a poll for the Daily Record has revealed.
Thirty-five per cent of voters back a post-general election deal between the two old enemies which would be certain to cause alarm in England.
And an SNP deal with Ed Miliband could put Alex Salmond into government. The former first minister is hot favourite to become MP for Gordon in Aberdeenshire.
Our survey found that a Labour-SNP alliance was the most popular of all the scenarios put forward for the make-up of the next UK government.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/revealed-scots-want-labour-govern-5001611

Note : Daily Record is a staunchly unionist/Labour backing newspaper.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Panelbase Scottish poll in the Sunday Times this weekend had Westminster voting intentions of CON 14%, LAB 31%, LDEM 3%, SNP 41%, UKIP 7%.

The SNP lead of ten points is a significant fall from most other Scottish polls since October, which have shown a lead of between 16 and 29 points.

ruggedtoast

A vote for the SNP is a vote for the doleite.