Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

that's ridiculous

the Dave and Alex will do a nod and wink deal to get rid of Scotland / achieve independence

a win for Alex (aclaimed President for life ) in Scotland and a Tory government in power for 100 years in England
Ed goes down as achieving his father's dream of permanently damaging the UK and get a plumb job in the EU


happiness everywhere

Oooh no. I don't think Dave and Alex would trust each other as far as they could throw each other. Certainly not after Dave pulling out the EVEL speech before the ink was dry on the ref ballot papers.. ( timing might not be his strong point ). And Alex being plastered on billboards all over England as a tea-leaf.. though on Twitter they've had fun with that one, as Alex in a black pullover looks more like the Milk Tray man..'and all because the lady loves...' lol.

Still, it comes to something when even the DUP is removing support due to the Tories lack of 'honour' for the Union in this campaign re Scotland.

Conservative party is losing our support over Scotland, warns DUP...

Dodds is highly critical of those who question the legitimacy of SNP MPs at Westminster – as the home secretary did when she told the Mail on Sunday that a Labour / SNP deal would “raise difficult questions about legitimacy”. Echoing the criticism of the former Scotland secretary Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, Dodds wrote: “Take the ‘right’ of SNP MPs to vote in the Commons, or the supposed lack of legitimacy that stems from it. No one who purports to be a unionist can question it. They have the right. That’s why we fought and won the referendum: to enshrine the rights of Scots to go on sending representatives, fully equal to every other, to Westminster. Glib and lazy talk about SNP MPs somehow not being as entitled to vote in every division in the Commons as any other British MP simply fuels nationalist paranoia.” Ruth Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, described May’s remarks as hyperbolic.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/26/conservative-party-is-losing-our-support-over-scotland-warns-dup

Ouch.

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Well thats good, because the only thing we know for sure is that the SNP won't be part of it.

Labour, Lib Dems and Tories have now all come out and said there will be no formal cooperation with the SNP in Westminster, not even confidence and supply arrangements.

SNP MP's can vote any way they like of course, they can choose to support or not support any government, but they won't be pulling the strings or setting the agenda.

Particularly good news in light of the SNP's apparent desire for a neverendum.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oooh no. I don't think Dave and Alex would trust each other as far as they could throw each other. Certainly not after Dave pulling out the EVEL speech before the ink was dry on the ref ballot papers.. ( timing might not be his strong point ). And Alex being plastered on billboards all over England as a tea-leaf.. though on Twitter they've had fun with that one, as Alex in a black pullover looks more like the Milk Tray man..'and all because the lady loves...' lol.

Still, it comes to something when even the DUP is removing support due to the Tories lack of 'honour' for the Union in this campaign re Scotland.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/26/conservative-party-is-losing-our-support-over-scotland-warns-dup

Ouch.

Seems only a short time ago that Shakey was waxing lyrical about the camaraderie of the SNP political sisterhood and discussing 'fairness' and 'reducing inequality' and the future wonderland that Scotland would look forward to.

But how things change : she has now totally embraced the Westminster political practices and adopted Thatcherite views on behalf of her Scottish world

-no more talk of 'fairness' or reducing inequality but all about faux election tactics and vile people saying boo to SNP politicians
-celebrates the six figure Sturgeon family income as an example of reducing inequality
-positively ecstatic about the SNP politicians voting that the Scotland's First Minister should be the highest paid political post in the UK -even more than the UK PM - that will show the English who really can put their noses in the trough
-embraces the Thatcherite right to buy policy and proud that so many SNP supporters/politicians were clever enough to take full advantage
-pleased that Scotland doesn't waste money on helping the poorest disadvantaged but clever children getting to University but targets the money on the richest Scots, with handouts of hundred of thousands going to the richest parents in Scotland: a fine example of Thatchers trickle down theory of wealth.
-no time to discuss improving the health, longevity or cancer survival outcomes of the Scottish people : why do that when you can talk about England's NHS
-and of course just loves that the people of Yorkshire receive less than the people of Scotland

how things change but I suppose we all grow up.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

... the rather large point that I was making.

Which is the very legitimacy of SNP MP's to participate in Westminster, in whatever capacity, in the first place. ...

I don't think any have suggested that the SNP should not be allowed to vote, but there is a problem with legitimacy.

The basic problem, Shakey, is the perceived legitimacy of having a minor Party (of any origin) involved in the Government of the United Kingdom when that party is disloyal to the UK even to the point of active plotting for its dismemberment.

That is, for your enlightenment, quite different to UKIP, which (IMHO) is misguided in the extreme, which is actually loyal to the UK.

Generali

SNP Candidates show plans for how to deal with [STRIKE]F@#$ing English[/STRIKE] Westminster:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon/11564429/SNP-candidates-threaten-to-deliver-Westminsters-worst-nightmare.html

Meanwhile, the US deals another blow to any ideas the SNP might have about asking really nicely for FFA:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/11563761/US-to-launch-blitz-of-gas-exports-eyes-global-energy-dominance.html

Finally, Cameron comes clean on the Union:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/cameron-admits-the-united-kingdom-is-a-terrible-idea-2015042497692

.string.

Generali wrote: »

SNP Candidates show plans for how to deal with [STRIKE]F@#$ing English[/STRIKE] Westminster:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon/11564429/SNP-candidates-threaten-to-deliver-Westminsters-worst-nightmare.html

Potential replies


1. Three bad eggs out of 3.5 million SNP supporters is nothing to be concerned about; we don't hate the (f**!*:-)) English.

2. It's not true, the Daily Telegraph can't be relied upon a reliable source, they are biassed and haven't reported all the events the SNP have supported to collect flowers for English Pensioners

3. We are horrified (that anyone noticed) and have deselected those candidates; they will resume their work as SMPs.

4. Now perhaps you can understand the privation caused by centuries of English suppression

5. UKIP want to end the Holy Barney subsidies; that is the real problem

6: No reply


My money is on number 6

Froggitt

CLAPTON wrote: »

Seems only a short time ago that Shakey was waxing lyrical about the camaraderie of the SNP political sisterhood and discussing 'fairness' and 'reducing inequality' and the future wonderland that Scotland would look forward to.

But how things change : she has now totally embraced the Westminster political practices and adopted Thatcherite views on behalf of her Scottish world

-no more talk of 'fairness' or reducing inequality but all about faux election tactics and vile people saying boo to SNP politicians
-celebrates the six figure Sturgeon family income as an example of reducing inequality
-positively ecstatic about the SNP politicians voting that the Scotland's First Minister should be the highest paid political post in the UK -even more than the UK PM - that will show the English who really can put their noses in the trough
-embraces the Thatcherite right to buy policy and proud that so many SNP supporters/politicians were clever enough to take full advantage
-pleased that Scotland doesn't waste money on helping the poorest disadvantaged but clever children getting to University but targets the money on the richest Scots, with handouts of hundred of thousands going to the richest parents in Scotland: a fine example of Thatchers trickle down theory of wealth.
-no time to discuss improving the health, longevity or cancer survival outcomes of the Scottish people : why do that when you can talk about England's NHS
-and of course just loves that the people of Yorkshire receive less than the people of Scotland

how things change but I suppose we all grow up.

Was it the wonderful Andrew Neil (unmissable these days) who dragged up the statistic that the NHS spending in England has increased by more under the Tories than it has under the SNP in Scotland in the same time period?

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

Seems only a short time ago that Shakey was waxing lyrical about the camaraderie of the SNP political sisterhood and discussing 'fairness' and 'reducing inequality' and the future wonderland that Scotland would look forward to.

But how things change : she has now totally embraced the Westminster political practices and adopted Thatcherite views on behalf of her Scottish world

-no more talk of 'fairness' or reducing inequality but all about faux election tactics and vile people saying boo to SNP politicians
-celebrates the six figure Sturgeon family income as an example of reducing inequality
-positively ecstatic about the SNP politicians voting that the Scotland's First Minister should be the highest paid political post in the UK -even more than the UK PM - that will show the English who really can put their noses in the trough
-embraces the Thatcherite right to buy policy and proud that so many SNP supporters/politicians were clever enough to take full advantage
-pleased that Scotland doesn't waste money on helping the poorest disadvantaged but clever children getting to University but targets the money on the richest Scots, with handouts of hundred of thousands going to the richest parents in Scotland: a fine example of Thatchers trickle down theory of wealth.
-no time to discuss improving the health, longevity or cancer survival outcomes of the Scottish people : why do that when you can talk about England's NHS
-and of course just loves that the people of Yorkshire receive less than the people of Scotland

how things change but I suppose we all grow up.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth ? Referendum = No, Scotland remains in Union = SNP make the best of Scotland remaining in the Union. For now. End of.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I don't think any have suggested that the SNP should not be allowed to vote, but there is a problem with legitimacy.

The basic problem, Shakey, is the perceived legitimacy of having a minor Party (of any origin) involved in the Government of the United Kingdom when that party is disloyal to the UK even to the point of active plotting for its dismemberment.

That is, for your enlightenment, quite different to UKIP, which (IMHO) is misguided in the extreme, which is actually loyal to the UK.

Careful now string. Or you'll have Westminster handing out a list of approved 'legitimate' parties we can all vote for. That's a very sinister route you're thinking about re the 'legitimacy' of poltical parties. Dangerous stuff.

I'd leave that there if I were you before you start going down the lines of outlawing them as not being 'legitimate' enough for you. And I include Plaid Cymru and SDLP in that. ( as well as Meybon Kernow, Yorkshire First, Wessex Regionalists etc ). UKIP have no interest in Scotland whatsoever. I'd say they were misnamed.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Are you trying to put words in my mouth ? Referendum = No, Scotland remains in Union = SNP make the best of Scotland remaining in the Union. For now. End of.

No, I'm reflecting that you don't put any words in your own mouth about fairness, about reducing inequality, about equality for the people of Yorkshire, about the 'new' (SNP) politics of honesty and true grass roots democracy.

all you talk in Westminster style stuff like the above dishonest nonsense.

Where has your idealism gone?
Where has principled politics gone?