Bank charges incurred from a returned DD that wasn't my fault

Piggywinkle

I have a cashminder account with the Co-op and set up a DD for my recently purchased car insurance from Swinton. I received an email from Swinton telling me that my payments were £30.30 per month. I don't really use the cashminder yet (planning to go BR this year) and it was the only DD set up on there.

I transferred the £30.30 into the account to cover Swinton's DD, but then received a letter this morning (from Swinton) saying the payment was rejected by Co-op bank. Turns out, Swinton tried to take 7p more than the £30.30 they'd initially said my monthly payment would be. Swinton told me that they were charging me £24 fee for the returned DD, Co-op told me they were charging me £15 on top! As I am already on the verge of BR, this is something I can really do without.

Swinton have said they will refund their fee of £24 (how kind!), but they won't cover the £15 that Co-op are charging me for the returned DD. What are my rights? I surely cannot be held liable for fees where the mistake wasn't mine?

Any help would really be appreciated.

Mr_Goodkat

Have you read you instalment plan paperwork?


Quite often if you pay for something in monthly instalments the first instalment will be slightly more than the others as that 7pence cannot be split equally between the ten or twelve instalments so is taken at the start.


If Swinton have stated the first instalment was 7p more then you have been lucky to get them to waive their fees, if Swinton have not stated the first payment is more (I seriously doubt this) then complain until they agree to cover the £15.

Piggywinkle

All of my details stated that payments would be made in equal instalments of £30.30 per month. Details below are from an email I received after purchasing and being accepted for my policy...

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Thanks for choosing Swinton for your car insurance. With over 50 years of experience in handling insurance policies you can be rest assured that you are in safe hands. What should I do now? You'll be able to find all your car insurance documents in a secure area on our website called myswinton.

Here you can view, save or print documents whenever you like.

We'll send you an email when your documents are ready. This is normally within 24 hours.

If for any reason you have not received this within 7 days please contact us, quoting your policy number which is [redacted] Your car policy summary £30.30 Monthly

An advance payment of £30.30
followed by 11 monthly payments of £30.30.
Total credit payable £50.15

Total amount payable: £363.57

32.3% APR Variable

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That's fairly cut and dried isn't it? I paid the first instalment over the phone with my debit card, which would have given them ample opportunity to factor in any odds and ends that wouldn't fit into a regular monthly payment. I'm calling them again later to lodge an official complaint I think. I keep all my paperwork and I've received nothing regarding a change to my DD so I think the onus is completely on them.

Mr_Goodkat

Those figures aren't right:


12x £30.30 = £363.60 not £363.57


To get to £363.57 it would need to be 11 x £30.30 and 1 x £30.27 which is 3p less not 7p more than you were expecting.


How and when did you deposit the money into the COOP account and when did Swinton try and take the payment by DD?


Clearing times particularly over Christmas could come into play and even if you sent a faster payment on the day it was due they are not guaranteed to get there until the end of the next business day and the DD would likely be collected just after midnight on the due date.


Why did you pay the first instalment by debit card? Was this a deposit and required by the insurer?


Have you received a copy of the credit agreement in the post? What does that say.


Something is not right here but there are a number of possibilities so need more info...

dzug1

And why run the account so close to the wind? You need a little buffer to allow for things like minor errors and miscalculations

mgdavid

Piggywinkle wrote: »

...... Your car policy summary £30.30 Monthly

An advance payment of £30.30
followed by 11 monthly payments of £30.30.
Total credit payable £50.15

Total amount payable: £363.57
32.3% APR Variable

---

That's fairly cut and dried isn't it?..... .

No it's not, it's obvious just by looking at the last digit of each amount that it doesn't add up. It needed to be queried well before the first payment was due.

Piggywinkle

Mr_Goodkat wrote: »

Those figures aren't right:

12x £30.30 = £363.60 not £363.57

To get to £363.57 it would need to be 11 x £30.30 and 1 x £30.27 which is 3p less not 7p more than you were expecting.

How and when did you deposit the money into the COOP account and when did Swinton try and take the payment by DD? > I deposited the money a few weeks before Christmas and the debit was due to come out on 1st Jan (but obviously attempted on the 2nd due to the bank hol).

Why did you pay the first instalment by debit card? Was this a deposit and required by the insurer? > It was an advance payment required by the insurer, it was a deposit, yes.

Have you received a copy of the credit agreement in the post? What does that say. > The credit agreement is more detailed, I've dug it out and it actually says that the payments should be £30.29 per month.

Something is not right here but there are a number of possibilities so need more info...

I'll be honest, I didn't really double check how much the numbers added up to, I was just more focused on the monthly payment.

My credit agreement actually reads:

"Initial Insurance Transaction
Cash price for motor insurance and related products (including insurance premium tax) = £313.42
Cash price for brokerage service fee = nil
Total cash price = £313.42
Total amount payable for the Initial Insurance Transaction (sum of the Total cash price and interest charges) = £363.57

You must make an advance payment of £30.30 on or before the date you enter into this agreement.

Your initial monthly payments under this agreement are 11 payments of £30.29, the first of which will be payable on 01/01/2015 and on the same day of each month thereafter...." and so on.

It does state that payment amounts may vary in accordance with certain conditions in the T&Cs, but both conditions state that I should be informed in writing 7 days before any change takes place. In fact, one explicitly states, "We will tell you in writing of any changes to your monthly payments.'

So all that terrible maths aside in the email, I surely have a valid case for complaint don't I?

Piggywinkle

dzug1 wrote: »

And why run the account so close to the wind? You need a little buffer to allow for things like minor errors and miscalculations

I opened the account late last year to anticipate me going BR. There was nothing operating from it as I run my regular finances from a Natwest account which will be closed upon my BR so this was the first transaction I had transferred over to that account.

I've never had this happen to me before, so I didn't anticipate the problems I've run into. A bit daft of me, I know, in hindsight.

Mr_Goodkat

Piggywinkle wrote: »

I'll be honest, I didn't really double check how much the numbers added up to, I was just more focused on the monthly payment.

My credit agreement actually reads:

"Initial Insurance Transaction
Cash price for motor insurance and related products (including insurance premium tax) = £313.42
Cash price for brokerage service fee = nil
Total cash price = £313.42
Total amount payable for the Initial Insurance Transaction (sum of the Total cash price and interest charges) = £363.57

You must make an advance payment of £30.30 on or before the date you enter into this agreement.

Your initial monthly payments under this agreement are 11 payments of £30.29, the first of which will be payable on 01/01/2015 and on the same day of each month thereafter...." and so on.

It does state that payment amounts may vary in accordance with certain conditions in the T&Cs, but both conditions state that I should be informed in writing 7 days before any change takes place. In fact, one explicitly states, "We will tell you in writing of any changes to your monthly payments.'

So all that terrible maths aside in the email, I surely have a valid case for complaint don't I?

Those figures still aren't right!


1 x £30.30 and 11 x £30.29 = £363.49


To get to that amount it would be 1x £30.30, 10 x £30.29 plus 1 x £30.37.(From your first post I think they have tried to take £30.37? so that would tally).


Take a look at the credit agreement again and confirm exactly what it says?


Normally the deposit should be knocked off the cash price and then the remainder is interest bearing and split over the number of payments e.g. 11 but you would still expect the first dd to be slightly higher followed by ten at the same amount.

timbstoke

Contact Co Op Bank, tell them that the amount Swinton charged was not correct, and ask that they refund any associated charges as part of the Direct Debit Guarantee. Technically, the DDG doesn't make any mention of bank charges, but I've been successful when doing this before.

Piggywinkle

Mr GoodKat, the only figures given are those I transcribed in my previous post, but I see that the figures don't add up that way. Either way, they've altered my DD amount without giving me prior notice which is the core of my problem. I might be cr*p at maths, but their alteration of a DD has led to me incurring penalty charges with my bank, which I really don't think I deserve.

Timbstoke, I put this to Co op who said that the DD guarantee would only have covered a refund if an increased amount was successfully debited from my account, whereas in this case, it was simply rejected. They told me that I would need to recoup the fees from Swinton due to their error.

It might be worth mentioning that I'm also on massive amounts of medication at the moment for anxiety and depression which is inextricably linked to my financial situation. This may go some way to explaining how scatterbrained I appear about anything to do with money. I hope you'll excuse me for that