Funeral fund, paupers funeral and awkward family members

Furryclure

My FIL died last week and he left no will, debt and a policy that will only pay out £840 because he hadn't been paying into it for long enough. No estate.


Hubby and I are both disabled, hubby works part time and we get working tax credits with the severe disabled element. We qualify but it is asking all kind of questions about the family including NI numbers. FIL's mother is still alive in a care home (has less than 20k of the money she gained from her house sale) , as is his brother. His brother has full control of the money and stated we wouldn't be getting any. He has never wanted anything to do with his brother, they never got on but will be attending the funeral.


Hubby's brother is in debt and has a family to feed. We cannot afford anything either. How do we go about getting a paupers funeral, and have we now voided that by getting a funeral director involved?

G6JNS

Furryclure wrote: »

My FIL died last week and he left no will, debt and a policy that will only pay out £840 because he hadn't been paying into it for long enough. No estate.


Hubby and I are both disabled, hubby works part time and we get working tax credits with the severe disabled element. We qualify but it is asking all kind of questions about the family including NI numbers. FIL's mother is still alive in a care home (has less than 20k of the money she gained from her house sale) , as is his brother. His brother has full control of the money and stated we wouldn't be getting any. He has never wanted anything to do with his brother, they never got on but will be attending the funeral.


Hubby's brother is in debt and has a family to feed. We cannot afford anything either. How do we go about getting a paupers funeral, and have we now voided that by getting a funeral director involved?

The local council have a legal obligation to pay. Nobody but the deceased perosnn has any legal obligation to contribute. You may have to press the council but don't let them fob you off.

ALI1973

I am sorry for your loss.

I think when my Dad died (10 years ago) my Mum claimed this https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments/overview as his next of kin (she is also disabled and not working). We (the children) then shared the remaining amount outstanding (my Dad had left specific instructions on what kind of funeral he wanted, but no money to pay for it)

If I remember correctly, she got about £2k, and after the headstone was purchased and installed between 2 of the children we each paid £1.5k. I doubt that a standard funeral would cost what my Dads did, as on top of his specifics, we had to have a specialist coffin made him (he was a very large man).

As far as he debts went, we contacted each company and provided a copy of his death certificate, and with the exception of a couple who took more persuading, all wrote the debt off. I believe though that you would have to contribute the £840 towards the funeral first, and any debts after? I am sure someone who actually knows will advise on that.

BobQ

Furryclure wrote: »

My FIL died last week and he left no will, debt and a policy that will only pay out £840 because he hadn't been paying into it for long enough. No estate.


Hubby and I are both disabled, hubby works part time and we get working tax credits with the severe disabled element. We qualify but it is asking all kind of questions about the family including NI numbers. FIL's mother is still alive in a care home (has less than 20k of the money she gained from her house sale) , as is his brother. His brother has full control of the money and stated we wouldn't be getting any. He has never wanted anything to do with his brother, they never got on but will be attending the funeral.


Hubby's brother is in debt and has a family to feed. We cannot afford anything either. How do we go about getting a paupers funeral, and have we now voided that by getting a funeral director involved?

The above post is not entirely clear. But the points to note:

There is an estate, it appears to be £840 plus debts plus any personal property. It is therefore insolvent.

The Local Authority should be told that they will need to fund the funeral as the estate is insolvent. They will ask questions but you do not have to answer. That said you have no reason not to tell them information you have and that would save them time.

If the £840 is paid to FILs estate then the local authority will want that as a contribution to funeral. If it is paid to anyone else (like MIL) that is hers.

MILs money has nothing to do with the FILs estate unless the money is in the FILs name.

The FILs estate is insolvent so neither son is obliged to do anything to arrange a funeral or administrate the estate. Indeed you should do neither without the LA agreement.

dzug1

You have alas committed yourself to paying for the funeral by (presumably) entering into a contract with the undertaker. You will have to pay him and hopefully be able to retrieve at least some of the money from the local authority.

nwc389

The £840 will have to go to the funeral costs as debt is prioritised after funeral costs.
Regarding the debt that he left write to each firm with a copy of the death certificate but do not give any contact phone numbers as you may find some companies are more difficult to deal with than others.

BobQ

ALI1973 wrote: »

I am sorry for your loss.

I think when my Dad died (10 years ago) my Mum claimed this https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments/overview as his next of kin (she is also disabled and not working). We (the children) then shared the remaining amount outstanding (my Dad had left specific instructions on what kind of funeral he wanted, but no money to pay for it)

If I remember correctly, she got about £2k, and after the headstone was purchased and installed between 2 of the children we each paid £1.5k. I doubt that a standard funeral would cost what my Dads did, as on top of his specifics, we had to have a specialist coffin made him (he was a very large man).

As far as he debts went, we contacted each company and provided a copy of his death certificate, and with the exception of a couple who took more persuading, all wrote the debt off. I believe though that you would have to contribute the £840 towards the funeral first, and any debts after? I am sure someone who actually knows will advise on that.

Based on the original post, the estate is insolvent. It is unwise to do anything except inform the local authority. You may have agreed to pay but if the poster does not have the money then they do not have to arrange a funeral.

BobQ

dzug1 wrote: »

You have alas committed yourself to paying for the funeral by (presumably) entering into a contract with the undertaker. You will have to pay him and hopefully be able to retrieve at least some of the money from the local authority.

I had missed that point. As you say, if OP has signed the forms without making clear she cannot afford to pay then there is a problem.

OP -I would try writing to the Funeral Director saying that at the time I understood there was insurance cover but now find the policy is insufficient so they should take no more action till the LA advise what to do. It may not get you out of the commitment you have signed

ALI1973

BobQ wrote: »

Based on the original post, the estate is insolvent. It is unwise to do anything except inform the local authority. You may have agreed to pay but if the poster does not have the money then they do not have to arrange a funeral.

Apologies, didn't mean to mislead, just based on my own experience in a similar situation.

Furryclure

Thank you everyone for your help. We shouldn't have rushed into the funeral directors but because the owner of the fd was a good friend of my fil that's why we went for it. He kept telling everyone there was a separate policy for 7k but we can't find any details.


Thank you so much. We are due to see cab about filling out the funeral payments form.

haras_nosirrah

quick question. You say mil has 20k left from the sale of her house. Was it a joint property? If so wouldn't some of that be considered part of her husbands estate and therefore needing to be used for funeral