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Taking the fight to the PPC...
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Jaystoke
Posts: 12 Forumite
I have today sent the following email to the PPC who manage the car park at my flat. The PPC is Secure a Space, who, if you go on their website,the opening page is all about deterring 'the nuisance of vehicles parking on a regular basis without your authorisation'. One would think that they'd be more interested in promoting normal car park management,otherwise it sounds like they're built around issuing pcn's and im sure thats not really the case...
I am a resident at the above noted property, for which, part of the terms and conditions are that I have my own private parking space.
However, the parking facility has your signs suggesting that you are appointed to manage the car park facility. Please provide me with the written authorisation in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice paragraphs 7.1 and 7.3 - as I do not accept any alleged authority/standing claimed by Secure a Space.
The signage at the facility states:
"This Private Land is for the Parking of Motor Vehicles. By Parking Outside of a Marked or Allocated Bay and/or Not Clearly Displaying a Valid Permit will result in the Driver Agreeing to Pay a Parking Charge Notice of £100.00 reduced to £60.00 if Full Payment is received within 14 days".
I do not accept the Penalty Charge advertised. I have full right to park, or give permission to the driver of my vehicle to park; and I do not believe that I must accept in full each and every single aspect of the contract you are proposing.
I will agree to park within my allocated bay. However, if another driver has parked their vehicle in the bay, I will find an alternative, empty space which is known not to be currently utilised and notify you immediately, with photographic evidence, that my bay is unavailable. I will not accept any alleged loss caused when a third party forces me to encroach - and uphold my right to keep my vehicle in the secure facility provided with the property.
It is noted, however, that the driver may under the terms and conditions pay in a marked bay or an allocated bay. There is no actual requirement to park within our own allocated bay and, as such, as long as a driver parks within a marked bay, this would meet the normal terms of parking at the facility.
Also, I do not accept the Penalty Charge as being a fair charge based upon a genuine pre-estimate of loss. I consider that, in an event where, either:
> the vehicle is parked outside of a marked bay; or
> the vehicle is parked outside of an allocated bay; or
> a valid permit is not clearly displayed
- that breach of the parking terms and conditions would not under any circumstance cause any form of loss to the landowner. Or, the breach of such would, if not be zero loss, be negligable or nominal. Any costs associated with the raising of a Parking Charge Notice, administration of such etc. only comes in to existence if the Operator decides to do so - and any suggestion that it would cause loss to be recovered to the extent of £100 (or £60 if payed within 14 days) appears to be entirely disproportionate to any actual initial loss. In this instance, it then falls under the category of being seen to punish the driver or to deter a breach of contract - which are deemed to be penalty clauses and therefore unenforceable.
I therefore reasonably request that you provide details of your determination of your genuine pre-estimate of loss in this matter within 14 days - as this directly impacts me as a resident at the address. I will, of course, be willing to accept those terms if I agree with your estimation; but recommend that until this matter is clarified, then any such Parking Charges are not issued or be immediately revoked.
If no response is received within 14 days, then I will escalate this matter through the British Parking Association.
I am a resident at the above noted property, for which, part of the terms and conditions are that I have my own private parking space.
However, the parking facility has your signs suggesting that you are appointed to manage the car park facility. Please provide me with the written authorisation in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice paragraphs 7.1 and 7.3 - as I do not accept any alleged authority/standing claimed by Secure a Space.
The signage at the facility states:
"This Private Land is for the Parking of Motor Vehicles. By Parking Outside of a Marked or Allocated Bay and/or Not Clearly Displaying a Valid Permit will result in the Driver Agreeing to Pay a Parking Charge Notice of £100.00 reduced to £60.00 if Full Payment is received within 14 days".
I do not accept the Penalty Charge advertised. I have full right to park, or give permission to the driver of my vehicle to park; and I do not believe that I must accept in full each and every single aspect of the contract you are proposing.
I will agree to park within my allocated bay. However, if another driver has parked their vehicle in the bay, I will find an alternative, empty space which is known not to be currently utilised and notify you immediately, with photographic evidence, that my bay is unavailable. I will not accept any alleged loss caused when a third party forces me to encroach - and uphold my right to keep my vehicle in the secure facility provided with the property.
It is noted, however, that the driver may under the terms and conditions pay in a marked bay or an allocated bay. There is no actual requirement to park within our own allocated bay and, as such, as long as a driver parks within a marked bay, this would meet the normal terms of parking at the facility.
Also, I do not accept the Penalty Charge as being a fair charge based upon a genuine pre-estimate of loss. I consider that, in an event where, either:
> the vehicle is parked outside of a marked bay; or
> the vehicle is parked outside of an allocated bay; or
> a valid permit is not clearly displayed
- that breach of the parking terms and conditions would not under any circumstance cause any form of loss to the landowner. Or, the breach of such would, if not be zero loss, be negligable or nominal. Any costs associated with the raising of a Parking Charge Notice, administration of such etc. only comes in to existence if the Operator decides to do so - and any suggestion that it would cause loss to be recovered to the extent of £100 (or £60 if payed within 14 days) appears to be entirely disproportionate to any actual initial loss. In this instance, it then falls under the category of being seen to punish the driver or to deter a breach of contract - which are deemed to be penalty clauses and therefore unenforceable.
I therefore reasonably request that you provide details of your determination of your genuine pre-estimate of loss in this matter within 14 days - as this directly impacts me as a resident at the address. I will, of course, be willing to accept those terms if I agree with your estimation; but recommend that until this matter is clarified, then any such Parking Charges are not issued or be immediately revoked.
If no response is received within 14 days, then I will escalate this matter through the British Parking Association.
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Comments
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I'd be telling them 3 things:
1. To white-list your vehicle and under no circumstances ticket it.
2. Under no circumstances to place any foot on your land, otherwise you will sue for trespass.
3. Should they decide to ignore points 1 and/or 2 and ticket your vehicle, in addition to suing them for trespass, you will appeal each and every ticket via POPLA which will cost them £27+VAT for each, and you will continue to inflict this cost on them until such time as they recognise the financial foolishness of messing with you.
A far simpler and more effective way of 'taking it to them' than the lengthy tome you've composed. Typically PPCs have limited powers of concentration and are unlikely to get to the end of your letter without causing themselves confusion!
Hit them hard with hammer blows, tap-tap don't work.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
Ask them why they think they can operate a commecrial profit making operation on land you rent.
That one they wont want to answer.I do Contracts, all day every day.0 -
As above, it is far too long and convoluted and you would actually be providing them with an agreement where they could ticket you for not providing a picture of a car in someone else's place if they got the ticket on your car first. That's just daft.
Complain to your landowner/agent and send the letter Umkomaas has suggested to the PPC.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
As above, it is far too long and convoluted and you would actually be providing them with an agreement where they could ticket you for not providing a picture of a car in someone else's place if they got the ticket on your car first. That's just daft.
Complain to your landowner/agent and send the letter Umkomaas has suggested to the PPC.
Noted.
Thanks for the responses people0 -
If you Google 'tospig POPLA test' and look at post #30 of the MSE thread that pops up as the first result (I think), I set out a stern 'Letter before Claim' for a resident to send to their annoying PPC and the Managing Agents, setting out exactly why the person would sue if the PPC darkened their (car) door!
But equally you could get your own back by winning at POPLA every time - then sending a stern letter to all parties, demanding your car is whitelisted along with those of your family/visitors. You can explain that POPLA has proven their charges to be worthless as they are not based on a GPEOL, so any further PCNs or letters is harassment and an unwarranted threat = unlawful, and a basis upon which YOU could sue for damages. In fact the law changed on October 1st to allow this as a remedy for consumers:
http://www.barkergotelee.co.uk/consumer-protection-update/
HTHPRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
From sites with just a handful of spaces to 1000, we have over 10 years experience in the industry. Our current client list includes Housing Associations, Land Developers, Residential Lettings Agents, Local Authorities, retail and office complexes.
I wonder what "sites with over a 1000" they manage, and which letting agents they service.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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