British Gas Bill

Gary88

I'll keep this short, I moved out from my parents last month and just received my first bill for Gas from British gas on Christmas Eve of all times! They've quoted me £94 for the bill which I can't believe. The meeting reading when I moved in on the 15th Nov (which is confirmed on my account on their site) is 00490 and the reading I gave (again confirmed on their site) on the 16th Dec is 00656. The "Consumption kWh" they have is 1853.0.

I was expecting the bill to be around £16 for the first month as I worked out the consumption to be 166 units, charged at £0.048 per unit and £0.26 per day but not £94.

I tried to call them thinking they would be open but the automated response says that they are closed for Christmas and I'm unable to find Christmas times anywhere for them (although I haven't really look for this).

Is British Gas correct or have I done something wrong? Would like piece of mind going into Christmas. I'm on the variable tariff as I'm currently moving to EON due to issues with the electricity (currently with EON), it's a long story but I don't think British Gas could run a 1 ticket raffle!

Thanks

r2015

A unit of gas is not a kWh. it is approx. 11 kWh of gas.


So your bill is correct.

Poppycat

Try this you need your bill to post conversion factor ie Calorific Value + Correction Factor

http://www.energylinx.co.uk/gas_meter_conversion.html

Andy_WSM

Gary88 wrote: »

I was expecting the bill to be around £16 for the first month

£16 a month, this time of year? Hmmm. You didn't think for a moment you might have been working it out wrong, with others talking about fuel poverty and hundreds of £s a month on utility bills?

As per others, you need to multiply your meter units by approx 11 + correction factor (although this makes little difference).

stator

Andy_WSM wrote: »

You didn't think for a moment you might have been working it out wrong
.

Clearly they did, hence this post. No need to be so critical, huh?

Robin9

You are not the only one who assumes that the gas meter reading is in units like the electricity.

lvf

The actual calculation to kWh will be printed on the bill itself, under the breakdown of charges.

There are two types of gas meter, one which measures units in m3 (meters cubed, couldn't do the symbol), and hcf (hundred cubic feet). You will first need to convert the meter advance units to kWh.

It is normally something close to:
Number of meter units used * 2.83 (if in hcf, ignore if in m3) * 1.02264 * calorific value (ranges between 37.0 and 42.0) / 3.6. This could be slightly wrong as its done from memory, but as i said it should be on your bill.

Cardew

I wonder why the posts need to be so complicated.


We know it is a metric meter as they have billed the OP for 1,853kWh for 166 gas units.


The answer to the OP's question is BG haven't done anything wrong; and Post#2 gave the reason.

lvf

Cardew wrote: »

I wonder why the posts need to be so complicated.

"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."

I don't see how giving a person an answer and educating them as to why this is the correct answer is a problem. I have seen numerous threads on here where OPs ask a question, they essentially get a yes or no answer, then get frustrated simply due to not understanding why this is correct.

Also, if there was only a need for a 'yes' or 'no', then a post should be put on a Q&A site, or contact the supplier directly.

I don't think you understand how a forum works. The person asks a question, they get an answer. Then, in the future new users search for the same/similar issue (either internally, eg the search bar at the top, or externally, eg through Google etc.). As the issue may be different for different users (in this case the metric/imperial unit measurement), I don't think its a bad idea to cover all bases.

And finally, telling someone to "multiply by 11" just isn't correct. It may give a rough estimation, but spending time explaining bills to people has shown to me time and time again that people want to know to the exact penny how their bill has been constructed. Educating in my opinion is not a bad thing, and anyone reading the posts don't have to take the information on board if they do not want to.

Cardew

[QUOTE=lvf;67303209
I don't think you understand how a forum works. The person asks a question, they get an answer. Then, in the future new users search for the same/similar issue (either internally, eg the search bar at the top, or externally, eg through Google etc.). I don't think its a bad idea to cover all bases.

And finally, telling someone to "multiply by 11" just isn't correct. It may give a rough estimation, but spending time explaining bills to people has shown to me time and time again that people want to know to the exact penny how their bill has been constructed. Educating in my opinion is not a bad thing, and anyone reading the posts don't have to take the information on board if they do not want to.[/QUOTE]

I am sure I will learn in time to understand how a forum works - I am just a slow learner!

Extending your argument further, rather than using an approximate conversion factor of 11.2 from metric gas units to kWh, it would appear essential that all customers should read and understand the following before paying their bill.

Higher heating valueURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heat_of_combustion&action=edit&section=1"][COLOR=#0066cc]edit[/COLOR][/URL

The quantity known as higher heating value (HHV) (or gross energy or upper heating value or gross calorific value (GCV) or higher calorific value (HCV)) is determined by bringing all the products of combustion back to the original pre-combustion temperature, and in particular condensing any vapor produced. Such measurements often use a standard temperature of 25 °C (77 °F). This is the same as the thermodynamic heat of combustion since the enthalpy change for the reaction assumes a common temperature of the compounds before and after combustion, in which case the water produced by combustion is liquid.
The higher heating value takes into account the latent heat of vaporization of water in the combustion products, and is useful in calculating heating values for fuels where condensation of the reaction products is practical (e.g., in a gas-fired boiler used for space heat). In other words, HHV assumes all the water component is in liquid state at the end of combustion (in product of combustion) and that heat below 150 °C can be put to use.
Lower heating valueURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heat_of_combustion&action=edit&section=2"][COLOR=#0066cc]edit[/COLOR][/URL

The quantity known as lower heating value (LHV) (net calorific value (NCV) or lower calorific value (LCV)) is determined by subtracting the heat of vaporization of the water vapor from the higher heating value. This treats any H2O formed as a vapor. The energy required to vaporize the water therefore is not released as heat.
LHV calculations assume that the water component of a combustion process is in vapor state at the end of combustion, as opposed to the higher heating value (HHV) (a.k.a. gross calorific value or gross CV) which assumes that all of the water in a combustion process is in a liquid state after a combustion process.
The LHV assumes that the latent heat of vaporization of water in the fuel and the reaction products is not recovered. It is useful in comparing fuels where condensation of the combustion products is impractical, or heat at a temperature below 150 °C cannot be put to use.
The above is but one definition of lower heating value adopted by the American Petroleum Institute (API) and uses a reference temperature of 60 °F (15.56 °C).
Another definition, used by Gas Processors Suppliers Association (GPSA) and originally used by API (data collected for API research project 44), is the enthalpy of all combustion products minus the enthalpy of the fuel at the reference temperature (API research project 44 used 25 °C. GPSA currently uses 60 °F), minus the enthalpy of the stoichiometric oxygen (O2) at the reference temperature, minus the heat of vaporization of the vapor content of the combustion products.
The distinction between the two is that this second definition assumes that the combustion products are all returned to the reference temperature and the heat content from the condensing vapor is considered not to be useful. This is more easily calculated from the higher heating value than when using the preceding definition and will in fact give a slightly different answer.
Gross heating valueURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heat_of_combustion&action=edit&section=3"][COLOR=#0066cc]edit[/COLOR][/URL

• Gross heating value (see AR) accounts for water in the exhaust leaving as vapor, and includes liquid water in the fuel prior to combustion. This value is important for fuels like wood or coal, which will usually contain some amount of water prior to burning.

• Note that GPSA 12th Edition states that the Gross Heating Value of a gas is equivalent to Higher Heating Value. This suggests that there may be different standards in play. The use of the term Gross normally describes a larger value than the Net, which usually describes a smaller value. GPSA is consistent with this, and equates the Gross Heating Value to the higher heating value (for a gas - so probably with no liquid water present), and the Net Heating Value to the lower heating value.

Measuring heating valuesURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heat_of_combustion&action=edit&section=4"][COLOR=#0066cc]edit[/COLOR][/URL

The higher heating value is experimentally determined in a bomb calorimeter. The combustion of a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and oxidizer (e.g. two moles of hydrogen and one mole of oxygen) in a steel container at 25 °C is initiated by an ignition device and the reactions allowed to complete. When hydrogen and oxygen react during combustion, water vapor is produced. The vessel and its contents are then cooled to the original 25 °C and the higher heating value is determined as the heat released between identical initial and final temperatures.
When the lower heating value (LHV) is determined, cooling is stopped at 150 °C and the reaction heat is only partially recovered. The limit of 150 °C is an arbitrary choice.
Note: Higher heating value (HHV) is calculated with the product of water being in liquid form while lower heating value (LHV) is calculated with the product of water being in vapor form.
Relation between heating valuesURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heat_of_combustion&action=edit&section=5"][COLOR=#0066cc]edit[/COLOR][/URL

The difference between the two heating values depends on the chemical composition of the fuel. In the case of pure carbon or carbon monoxide, the two heating values are almost identical, the difference being the sensible heat content of carbon dioxide between 150 °C and 25 °C (sensible heat exchange causes a change of temperature. In contrast, latent heat is added or subtracted for phase transitions at constant temperature. Examples: heat of vaporization or heat of fusion). For hydrogen the difference is much more significant as it includes the sensible heat of water vapor between 150 °C and 100 °C, the latent heat of condensation at 100 °C, and the sensible heat of the condensed water between 100 °C and 25 °C. All in all, the higher heating value of hydrogen is 18.2% above its lower heating value (142 MJ/kg vs. 120 MJ/kg). For hydrocarbons the difference depends on the hydrogen content of the fuel. For gasoline and diesel the higher heating value exceeds the lower heating value by about 10% and 7% respectively, and for natural gas about 11%.
A common method of relating HHV to LHV is:
HHV = LHV + hv x (nH2O,out/nfuel,in)where hv is the heat of vaporization of water, nH2O,out is the moles of water vaporized and nfuel,in is the number of moles of fuel combusted./COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc]1[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0066cc

• Most applications that burn fuel produce water vapor, which is unused and thus wastes its heat content. In such applications, the lower heating value must be used to give a 'benchmark' for the process.
• However, for true energy calculations in some specific cases, the higher heating value is correct. This is particularly relevant for natural gas, whose high hydrogen content produces much water, when it is burned in condensing boilers and power plants with flue-gas condensation that condense the water vapor produced by combustion, recovering heat which would otherwise be wasted.

Pincher

Gas of 4.8p per kWh?


What you really need to do is learn how to use a comparison site.