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Why is being 1 stop out of zone 6 so difficult?

eskimo26
eskimo26 Posts: 897 Forumite
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edited 23 December 2014 at 2:31AM in Public transport & cycling
It's so convoluted.

Is it cheaper to journey into zone 6 and go from there?

Is it cheaper to get a return ticket or use oyster [does oyster upgrade the ticket into a return for you or charge you two singles?]

It's horrible with rip-off prices the second you step one stop out of zone 6 and an insanely over complicated number of options.

National rail indicates that oyster will do the equivalent of a return journey so i'll probably go with that but it is absurd.

Oh just to really rub !!!!! in our faces the town 10 minutes up the road has been designated zone 6 as a 'special exception' but we are not! It's not easy to get to it from here by public transport either.

Just had a look and zone 6 to kingston is £5 return with oyster but zone 7 [about 3 mins. between the train stops] is £12! How can this be justified? Why is it the london zones aren't even in london sometimes they just stick them where they feel like it and expect people not to feel hard done by.
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Comments

  • mgdavid
    mgdavid Posts: 6,710 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    have the zone boundaries actually changed, or did you just not realise where they were before you moved to your location?
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
  • eskimo26
    eskimo26 Posts: 897 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    mgdavid wrote: »
    have the zone boundaries actually changed, or did you just not realise where they were before you moved to your location?

    We've lived here for decades and each and every price hike they absolutely hammer us. They know they can do what they like because so many people work in london.

    Meanwhile it seems like london is on a two tier system with oyster giving substantial discount for no conceivable reason and the price creep has been no where close to what we've had. [i studied and lived in london about 7 years ago so can gauge it pretty well.]

    It's down to a few things:
    companies being very greedy and being allowed to get away with it

    companies that are not able to agree on which stations should be in zone 6 [as is the case with epsom downs which is and epsom which isn't].

    No real effort to smooth the transition into zone 6- it just jumps up exponentially for no functional reason just the fact that someone has put up a make believe boundary.

    I wouldn't mind if their was some cohesion, it would be nice for example if i could touch out my oyster at my zone 7 stop even if the price is no different it mean i don't have to faff about splitting ticket prices a million different ways or thinking about which zone 6 station i have to get to before starting my actual journey.

    It's a real mess. Right now I have to buy a return from zone 7 to 6 to cover that leg of the journey then i can oyster it and save a LOT of money. The thing is it didn't occur to me before, i've been buying tickets straight from zone 7 which is the normal thing to do and losing a LOT of money. The price bump from zone 6 to 7 and the whole effort of using your oyster when you can't touch it out is crazy.

    I'll pay a couple of quid more but don't take the !!!! and absolutely rip me off. We are talking about a difference of £7 to kingston simply for being one station over.
  • Alias_Omega
    Alias_Omega Posts: 7,916 Forumite
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    Purchase the tickets from the Train Line during works time, and collect on your way home if you can.


    Its just a formality then. Don't forget Quidco.


    I suspect there are others in your situation, where they don't realise and I would start to tell people what you have found and they may start to do the same.
  • martindow
    martindow Posts: 10,628 Forumite
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    Purchase the tickets from the Train Line during works time, and collect on your way home if you can.
    Whatever you do, there is no need to book anything from the Trainline who add extra fees that other companies do not. They have to pay for their ads somehow!

    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2008/may/04/consumeraffairs.railtravel
  • hugheskevi
    hugheskevi Posts: 4,623 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I get a similar issue when I travel home (into zone 3) from Gatwick.

    It is much cheaper to get a ticket to the rail station I have to change at, exit, and re-enter using Oyster for the last part of the journey, than it is to buy a ticket for the full journey.

    The price difference between Oyster areas and wider rail leads to other journey changes too, for example, the cheapest way for me to get to Stansted is to use a combination of rail and Underground to get across London (cheap as all within Oyster zones), then get Easybus to complete the last part of the journey, which would cost far more using rail.

    It is just companies maximising profit, variations on that theme are present within most industries. The rewards are there for customers who research and understand the structure, but the amount lost to those consumers is outweighed by those who pay more than necessary for convenience.
  • sniggings
    sniggings Posts: 5,281 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    hugheskevi wrote: »
    It is just companies maximising profit, variations on that theme are present within most industries. The rewards are there for customers who research and understand the structure, but the amount lost to those consumers is outweighed by those who pay more than necessary for convenience.

    you make it sound as if the system is designed to make trawling through multiple different routes cost effective. No it's just down to incompetence, on their part, lucky for us.
  • dzug1
    dzug1 Posts: 13,535 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    eskimo26 wrote: »


    [does oyster upgrade the ticket into a return for you or charge you two singles?]

    .



    It charges you two singles but caps at or usually below the rate for a one day travelcard for the same zones
  • w211
    w211 Posts: 700 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Posts Combo Breaker
    I'd have thought the boundary of the zonal areas correspond to the Greater London boundary.

    Where are you exactly? Sunbury/Kempton Park (I assume) are in the Borough of Spelthorne, whilst Kingston is a London Borough Council.

    The boundary has to be somewhere :undecided
  • yorkie2
    yorkie2 Posts: 1,595 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    It's so convoluted.
    Sorry to hear that, but what is? Maybe we can help.
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    Is it cheaper to journey into zone 6 and go from there?
    It might be. Where is your origin and destination?
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    Is it cheaper to get a return ticket or use oyster [does oyster upgrade the ticket into a return for you or charge you two singles?]
    It depends, but if you can post your travel requirements we can help.

    Oyster PAYG fares are charged for single journeys, with capping when you reach certain limits. However the details for capping are changing in a couple of weeks.
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    It's horrible with rip-off prices the second you step one stop out of zone 6 and an insanely over complicated number of options.
    It depends on where you are. For example Epsom is outside Zone 6, and yet a Travelcard from Epsom to Zones 1-6travelling on Southern is cheaper than a Travelcard for just Zones 1-6.

    So I am guessing you're not from Epsom, but I won't do any more guessing as it could take a while...!
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    I
    National rail indicates that oyster will do the equivalent of a return journey so i'll probably go with that but it is absurd.
    I don't quite follow.
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    I
    Oh just to really rub !!!!! in our faces the town 10 minutes up the road has been designated zone 6 as a 'special exception' but we are not! It's not easy to get to it from here by public transport either.
    Can you get a lift? or cycle?
    eskimo26 wrote: »
    I
    Just had a look and zone 6 to kingston is £5 return with oyster but zone 7 [about 3 mins. between the train stops] is £12! How can this be justified? Why is it the london zones aren't even in london sometimes they just stick them where they feel like it and expect people not to feel hard done by.
    Zone 7 stations are:
    • Chorleywood
    • Rickmansworth
    • Watford
    • Croxley
    • Carpenders Park
    • Theobalds Grove
    • Waltham Cross
    The fare from these stations to Kingston will vary, depending on the route taken, for example the first 5 in my list above to Kingston are only £2.30 each way if you avoid Zone 1 and travel off peak. But you are right that for the last two, the fare is £6.10 off peak (so a bit more than £12 if you returned) if you travel via Zone 1, this is £1 more than the first 5 via Zone 1 and is due to the dreaded unfair 'Mixed mode including Zone 1 premium' being charged.


    The number of minutes it takes to travel between station stops isn't a factor that has any bearing on fares, though.
  • yorkie2
    yorkie2 Posts: 1,595 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    [QUOTE=eskimo26;67288721
    companies that are not able to agree on which stations should be in zone 6 [as is the case with epsom downs which is and epsom which isn't].[/QUOTE]
    Epsom Downs is a relatively quiet branch line station at the end of a quiet residential street, so it makes sense to have artificially lower fares compared to Epsom.

    However from next month some passengers will benefit from buying a paper Travelcard from Epsom (for use on Southern only) as that is cheaper than a Travelcard that only covers Zones 1-6!

    There's a discussion about this on another forum but some members will get flustered if I link to it, so maybe I'd best not!;)
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