Pls help with this PPC first reply thankyou

adi0604

Hello All,
I have been reading all about PPC's PCN for last couple of hrs and I just want someone to confirm below my first response to PPC (Excel, Peel Centre) is okay. As I am not sure of the lines highlighted in RED

I am hopeful this will accept this and cancel PCN in first instance and I wont' need to go to second stage of POPLA.

All of the guidance I have been reading is very very helpful, and I appreciate the hard work.

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Date: 22/12/2014


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.: XLXXXXXXXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
f). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice with as much merit as the publicly-derided £100 taken unlawfully from customers by a dingy Blackpool Hotel.

Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate.

Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal“drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for mycosts. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


{the registered keeper's name}

Umkomaas

You can leave those bits out if you feel uncomfortable with them. Just make sure that when removed the new adjoining sentences flow together, and make continuity sense.

You do realise that the main purpose of this initial appeal is to 'hook' a POPLA code rather than it being a 'showstopper' that will guarantee a charge cancellation. Sometimes it does achieve a cancellation (especially of late with ParkingEye - but not Excel) but POPLA does give you an excellent opportunity to kick this permanently into the long grass.

adi0604

Umkomaas wrote: »

You can leave those bits out if you feel uncomfortable with them. Just make sure that when removed the new adjoining sentences flow together, and make continuity sense.

You do realise that the main purpose of this initial appeal is to 'hook' a POPLA code rather than it being a 'showstopper' that will guarantee a charge cancellation. Sometimes it does achieve a cancellation (especially of late with ParkingEye - but not Excel) but POPLA does give you an excellent opportunity to kick this permanently into the long grass.

Hi, thanks for your reply. could you please suggest how to get this PCN dropped with excel in first response? as in my case I did displayed the correct ticket but I have not kept it. Excel has just sent pictures of my in and out NOT for windscreen were ticket was displayed.

Umkomaas

The only 'first response' guaranteed to get the charge dropped will need to be handwritten. It's called a cheque! :cool:

I'm afraid you're going to have to 'go through the process' of the initial appeal followed by the POPLA appeal (plenty of POPLA appeal examples to follow in due course). You might get lucky with the initial one, but you shouldn't hold your breath on that.

adi0604

Umkomaas wrote: »

The only 'first response' guaranteed to get the charge dropped will need to be handwritten. It's called a cheque! :cool:

I'm afraid you're going to have to 'go through the process' of the initial appeal followed by the POPLA appeal (plenty of POPLA appeal examples to follow in due course). You might get lucky with the initial one, but you shouldn't hold your breath on that.

Noted. Do you think it would be of any help to mention below my case as below??
'I did displayed the correct ticket but I have not kept it and ask Excel to sent pictures of my windscreen proving ticket was not displayed'

bazster

Wot Umkomaas said. Excel tends not to "fold" on first appeal (although they should, 'cos they know they're gonna get their backsides whupped at PoPLA).

adi0604

bazster wrote: »

Wot Umkomaas said. Excel tends not to "fold" on first appeal (although they should, 'cos they know they're gonna get their backsides whupped at PoPLA).

I do hope they fold on first appeal. Please advice would it help if I mention below and ask them in my first appeal?

'I did displayed the correct ticket but I have not kept it and ask Excel to provide pictures of my windscreen proving ticket was not displayed'

sasquartch

Does this information not then admit that you were the driver ? I thought it always best to avoid saying who was driving, all they know at this stage is that you are the reg keeper.


Sure someone better qualified can confirm

adi0604

I can re-frame to

Appropriate ticket were displayed and ask Excel to provide pictures of my windscreen proving ticket was not displayed'
Or may be best not to mention any mitigating circumstances.

Will wait to hear from someone experienced.

Umkomaas

Was this charge generated from ANPR camera, or did an Excel warden stick a PCN on your windscreen?

Coupon-mad

adi0604 wrote: »

I do hope they fold on first appeal. Please advice would it help if I mention below and ask them in my first appeal?

'I did displayed the correct ticket but I have not kept it and ask Excel to provide pictures of my windscreen proving ticket was not displayed'

Excel won't be able to show windscreen pics because this was a PCN issued by ANPR, based on their records of the car registration input. Do you think 'the driver' could have made a typo or put in another car reg in error (the other car in the household?).

If so, if a possible typo happened (seems likely to me) then change what you are saying to this, which I have amended to suit. If you think the wrong car reg could have been input then add to point (e) and tell them which other car VRN to look for (but DO NOT BLOW IT BY SAYING 'I DID DISPLAY'' !):



Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.: XLXXXXXXXX

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). Your signs do not create a contravention for 'failing to display a P&D ticket' yet that is what the Notice appears to suggest was the case (this is denied).
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 because it fails to specify the period of parking and fails to specify the outstanding parking charges which you consider were 'unpaid by the driver' as at the day before the issue of the PCN. Due to that timeline from Schedule 4, this cannot be the inflated 'parking charge' of the same name, it can only be an unpaid tariff, yet your PCN does not specify that sum. In fact your Notice appears to suggest that you are only pursuing the driver on the 'assumption' that the keeper and the driver are one and the same. This is not evidenced and I will not be helping you to identify the driver. Clearly, it is your choice to issue a NTK which is not a POFA Schedule4 version but you do realise you cannot win at POPLA against a keeper, with this Notice?
e). The driver did pay and display. I suspect there may have been a typo in the VRN, which Excel has clearly not bothered to eliminate as a possibility, despite the BPA requirement for you to carry out manual checks to exclude unjustified PCNs such as this one. I expect you to check your records more thoroughly - hardly a difficult task, because you know the approximate time of arrival of the vehicle. I require that you cancel the PCN.

Formal Complaint
Your clients, the Peel Centre Management, should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you continue to treat consumers visiting retailers at their premises. Parking firms like yours ruin retailer reputations in failing to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. Excel has not shown itself to be any better than clampers; hardly surprising with a Notice emanating from a firm owned by Mr Renshaw-Smith, aka the notorious Captain Clampit.

I have emailed Nicola Dearden and Kevin Keigher at the Peel Centre to complain about your unwarranted threatening Notice, setting out our considerable distress and alarm - and anger - at having received such an intimidating fake parking ticket for such an extortionate amount. It is almost a joke, but not for them if our family and friends now decide to boycott the Peel Centre due to the way it treats paying customers.

Apart from a formal complaint, the purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to the driver and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 (you missed your chance) or cancel the charge.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. Under those Regulations I have a right to withdraw, even in these circumstances after the event, due to your failure to comply with the information required and your failure to obtain express consent from the driver, to explicitly agree to terms which were not even on the signs. I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed because your signs fail to state a contravention/charge at all, for 'failure to display'. Any alleged 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you decide not to cancel then you must offer POPLA, in which case the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that if this matter proceeds to Court, my costs and charges for my wasted time will be likely to reach £100 at least.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


{the registered keeper's name}






Oh, and email a complaint to Nicola Dearden: [EMAIL="Ndearden@peel.co.uk"]Ndearden@peel.co.uk[/EMAIL] and copy in Kevin Keigher: [EMAIL="Kkeigher@peel.co.uk"]Kkeigher@peel.co.uk[/EMAIL]