My dream to start my own bar.

Dan03

Hi, I'm not sure if there are many people with much knowledge about this here but I thought I would try anyway, or if anyone knows any community that might be able to help more please let me know also!

So I am a British citizen living in Berlin, Germany, currently unemployed but with around €20,000 savings and considering to make the biggest decision of my life and attempt my dream of opening my own bar.

I am 30 years old and love to party, I've spent my whole adult life exploring the nightlife of countries all over the world, I've also bartended in my younger years, and then later had a lot of experience organizing events for clubs freelance, which includes negotiating terms with club owners, booking DJs, and most of all promoting the event. I believe I am very successful especially in this, creating the type of event or place people want and filling it up with those people, which I guess is one of the most important skills a potential bar owner would need no?

The problem is, I have absolutely no idea how to start up a bar or manage it once I have. I don't have the first clue about anything related to what licences I might need, how to rent a property, what taxes will be paid, nothing.... I have no idea where to start with this

So I ask, does anyone have any suggestions for me, specific about my idea or suggestions on how to learn what needs to be learnt to attempt my plan.

Any advice at all is hugely appreciated! :beer:

robatwork

http://berlin.angloinfo.com/information/working/starting-a-business/

carlx

In regards to starting a bar business in Germany (or any country besides the UK) then i couldn't really help.

Firstly, i doubt €20,000 is enough of an investment to open the type of establishment you would like. What would make more sense is if you can get an investor, a partner - somebody who is German, preferably with experience in starting a business - somebody who can handle all the things you haven't a clue in.

A few years ago, like you, i wanted to open a bar, i found the venue, had a great annual rent (because it needed £60,000+ worth of renovations and was uninhabitable otherwise) and i set about my market research. My area does well with two things, drinking venues and takeaways - the two seemingly go hand in hand.

My stumbling blocks were mainly the economic state at the time - that is somewhat improving now, but the main reason i chose not to is because, like you, i have spent a lot of time socialising with friends in pubs and clubs around the globe - i love a posh little wine-bars, fancy mood lighting, expensive drinks and wealthy clients - my venue was perfect in every way, except i didn't think the type of people who frequented the area fell within my target market for customers.

So my advice is to do your research, research and more research haggle a lot because breweries and drinks companies want your business but want to rip you off as much as possible.

If you nail your research, find a good venue and utilise a business partner and never give up, then you will succeed.

motorguy

Opening your own bar without any experience of running one is a great way to make a small fortune....

....out of a large one!

Be very careful O/P - you've a common dream there, but its very difficult to achieve. Not sure what the markets like over here but theres a mad amount of bars closing every week here in the UK - its not an area thats easy to make money in.

I'd also say you need maybe £100,000 to get up and running

carlx wrote: »

If you nail your research, find a good venue and utilise a business partner and never give up, then you might succeed.

Edited for Accuracy.

paddyrg

€20k will not go far in owning a bar - licenses and so on aside, you'll easily tie up a quarter of it just in stock, rent will be several tens of thousands a year, and that's before employing staff, allowing for shrinkage, taxes, all before any illegit 'tax' collectors start visiting.

If you can buy into someone else's bar, it'll go a LOT further - however make sure you're buying into growth/refurb rather than propping up a failing one.

bris

20k might just about cover the legal fees, OP i't's a drop in the ocean for opening a bar.

Opinion

I own and run a late licensed bar/club/live music venue; happy to answer any questions.

As others have said, £20,000 is going to get you nowhere, nowhere at all.

Mistral001

Perhaps you could get a job working in a bar again, but this time listen and learn about the business. I suggest that you should not do anything to suggest to the bar owner that you plan to set up a bar by asking a lot of questions as you will probably not get much help if they knew what your plans were.


BTW are you planning to set up in the old East Berlin? The last time I was there, there seemed to be a lot of opportunities for development.

matt-comparison

I have some knowledge of the topic, but I should recommend an alternative to you -- I reckon the reasons you intend to do such a thing, as with most people is to "have your own thing" (heritage), make more money and do something you really love.

I reckon the first reason is just BS, leaving a legacy behind can be done without "owning" a bar, while your children will most likely appreciate cash money over a property anyday of the way. In regards to the other 2 - they can be achievable with multiple key roles in the world of bars and night clubs.

If you are well familiar with your target audience, become a promoter to a really good place, start by doing it once, have a permanent day of the week there, and who knows you might be accepted as a partner if you are good enough and bring enough value.
Even without that, a standard cut someone promoting a nightclub would be upwards of 35% for all spending of the people he brought in (or all people in the club, if this is his own branded event). In a good club, with high audience capacity, that would easily translate to thousands of sterling/euro each night.

If you are able to do that, you can earn enough money to also open your own nightclub, bar or pursue other dreams you might have at this point.

If you are unable to bring in the audience, then you are not going to make it in the night life business IMHO

Opinion

matt-comparison wrote: »

I have some knowledge of the topic, but I should recommend an alternative to you -- I reckon the reasons you intend to do such a thing, as with most people is to "have your own thing" (heritage), make more money and do something you really love.

I reckon the first reason is just BS, leaving a legacy behind can be done without "owning" a bar, while your children will most likely appreciate cash money over a property anyday of the way. In regards to the other 2 - they can be achievable with multiple key roles in the world of bars and night clubs.

If you are well familiar with your target audience, become a promoter to a really good place, start by doing it once, have a permanent day of the week there, and who knows you might be accepted as a partner if you are good enough and bring enough value.
Even without that, a standard cut someone promoting a nightclub would be upwards of 35% for all spending of the people he brought in (or all people in the club, if this is his own branded event). In a good club, with high audience capacity, that would easily translate to thousands of sterling/euro each night.

If you are able to do that, you can earn enough money to also open your own nightclub, bar or pursue other dreams you might have at this point.

If you are unable to bring in the audience, then you are not going to make it in the night life business IMHO

What knowledge/experience, out of interest?

EDIT: Sorry, meant that so the OP knows what perspective the advice is coming from. Owners, managers, promoters etc probably have a very different take on things.

Savvy_Sue

Dan03 wrote: »

creating the type of event or place people want and filling it up with those people, which I guess is one of the most important skills a potential bar owner would need no?

What you absolutely MUST have to succeed is the ability to recruit, retain and manage an outstanding staff team. If you're going to do this in Berlin, then a sound understanding of German employment law would be as essential as a sound understanding of German licensing laws, IMO.