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Cuba
Comments
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By any chance are these things that could be imported if there was no blockade?
The chances are very low. The ending of subsidies from the USSR caused a fall of more than a third in GDP and due to the highly inefficient economy, Cuba has never been able to recover. Cuba can import things from many countries other than the US. She can't afford to because of her disastrous economic recoveries.Are you more likely to end in jail in the US or Cuba?
The US has the third highest rate of incarceration in the world, Cuba the 7th (Wiki). The difference there isn't massive. Of course the vast majority of people in US prisons are there because they have committed what most people would recognise as crimes. Cuba has 0.5% of its population in prison because of their political beliefs and from 1969 to 1974 alone, over quarter of a million Cubans were exiled.
Given the choice, I'd rather face a US than a Cuban court given Cuba's brutal and arbitrary history of treatment. The US has mistreated a couple of hundred people and (rightly) has been condemned by millions across the world. Cuba routinely treats tens of thousands in the same way yet is feted as a Socialist paradise.And how long for?
That rather depends on what you did.Or be a victim of crime?
Nobody knows. The Cuban Government doesn't keep crime statistics.Or executed by the state?
Do you include people who have been kept on starvation rations and worked to death in those figures? Cuba has an official death penalty which is largely unused (or at least unreported). It also has a policy of using Concentration Camps against political opponents.
The number of executions in the past 50 years or so is open to debate but numbers in the 10,000s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba#Political_executions
Remember, Cuba has a population about 1/30th of the US's. This is the equivalent of somewhere between 300,000 and a million USians being killed by the state due to their political beliefs. Since the reintroduction of the death penalty about 1,394 people have been killed under the death penalty in the US. You have perhaps a 500x greater chance of being killed under a death sentence in the US than in Cuba. Plus the Concentration Camp deaths as well.0 -
You certainly have had far more chance of being detained without charge or trial for years on Cuba than in many other countries.
Of course 4 detainees got repatriated to Afghanistan last week, so there are only just over 100 or so left.'In nature, there are neither rewards nor punishments - there are Consequences.'0 -
You certainly have had far more chance of being detained without charge or trial for years on Cuba than in many other countries.
Of course 4 detainees got repatriated to Afghanistan last week, so there are only just over 100 or so left.
I think I'd rather be in a place where the torture of a couple of hundred people is met by outcry and front page headlines across the world than somewhere that execution for one's political beliefs is normal.0 -
I think I'd rather be in a place where the torture of a couple of hundred people is met by outcry and front page headlines across the world than somewhere that execution for one's political beliefs is normal.
I would too, don't get me wrong. If I had to choose between living in the US/Europe or Cuba, I know which I'd choose. But if I had to spend my life in Cuba or another non-developed/developing country I'd have to give that more thought.There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker0 -
That's awful. Not that it occurs in the US or developing nations of the Caribbean.....
It occurs all over the world. But apparently Cuba is the place to go in the Americas. Brits go to Thailand. Canadians etc go to Cuba....Still isn't killing you at all, let alone on the industrial scale the US government does, year in, year out....
That's not the point. I was drawing attention to your factual inaccuracy regarding your statement that "Somebody'll want the death penalty restored". Cuba already has the death penalty.
And if you're talking about killing on an industrial scale, bear in mind that Castro's coup in 1959 was not a bloodless affair and neither was the aftermath. Estimates vary as to how many people were shot by firing squad. Estimates vary as to how many people were killed attempting to flee the island...Aye right, that'll solve the people's accommodation problems how exactly?....
How can the Cubans have "accommodation problems" after 50 years of socialism.:rotfl:....By any chance are these things that could be imported if there was no blockade? ....
Why does a 'succesful' socialist country need to import anything?....Are you more likely to end in jail in the US or Cuba? And how long for? ....
You are far more likely to end up in jail in Cuba for criticising the government...Or be a victim of crime?
Or executed by the state?
How does it compare with other comparably-sized Caribbean nations? Haiti? Jamaica?
People used to say the same thing about the Soviet Union and Maoist China. Look how little crime there is they'd say! Well yes, totalitarian dictatorships with a network of secret informers might have their plus side. Freedom has a price. SFW.0 -
I would too, don't get me wrong. If I had to choose between living in the US/Europe or Cuba, I know which I'd choose. But if I had to spend my life in Cuba or another non-developed/developing country I'd have to give that more thought.
A lot of Cubans have faced the same choice. Many of them made their decision and risked their lives and fled abroad. Florida was apparently the destination of choice.
On the other hand, I am not aware of any significant number of people who have fled to Cuba. Indeed there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of sundry Mexicans, Hondurans, Hatians, etc and so forth who have gone to some lengths to enter the USA. They do not appear to have made any efforts whatsoever to enter the socialist paradise that is Cuba.0 -
Maybe so but this is necessarily anecdotal.It occurs all over the world. But apparently Cuba is the place to go in the Americas. Brits go to Thailand. Canadians etc go to Cuba.
Sorry I lack the vocab for what I mean to say which was somebody will want to restore execution to an actually occurring penalty rather than a theoretical one. We had it on the statute books for some offences a long time after we stopped applying it. If the US executed anybody in Gitmo it would be a horrible reminder who the world's main executioners are.That's not the point. I was drawing attention to your factual inaccuracy regarding your statement that "Somebody'll want the death penalty restored". Cuba already has the death penalty.
Good job the revolution didn't last forever then. Loads of people died in the Irish war of Independence and the Civil War. How many people do the citizens of Eire kill in modern times?And if you're talking about killing on an industrial scale, bear in mind that Castro's coup in 1959 was not a bloodless affair and neither was the aftermath. Estimates vary as to how many people were shot by firing squad. Estimates vary as to how many people were killed attempting to flee the island.
And how many years of economic blockade?How can the Cubans have "accommodation problems" after 50 years of socialism.:rotfl:
What country not run by lunatics thinks they aren't better off importing some things?Why does a 'succesful' socialist country need to import anything?
For a range of reasons many neighbouring countries offer their neighbours lives that are nasty brutal and short.You are far more likely to end up in jail in Cuba for criticising the government.
People used to say the same thing about the Soviet Union and Maoist China. Look how little crime there is they'd say! Well yes, totalitarian dictatorships with a network of secret informers might have their plus side. Freedom has a price. SFW.
Would you, in their shoes?A lot of Cubans have faced the same choice. Many of them made their decision and risked their lives and fled abroad. Florida was apparently the destination of choice.
On the other hand, I am not aware of any significant number of people who have fled to Cuba. Indeed there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of sundry Mexicans, Hondurans, Hatians, etc and so forth who have gone to some lengths to enter the USA. They do not appear to have made any efforts whatsoever to enter the socialist paradise that is Cuba.There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker0 -
I think I'd rather be in a place where the torture of a couple of hundred people is met by outcry and front page headlines across the world than somewhere that execution for one's political beliefs is normal.
Sure.
As long as you realise that the outcry will have no effect and that political assassinations are practiced by all countries.0 -
Maybe so but this is necessarily anecdotal....
Canadians are travelling to Cuba in surprising numbers to sexually exploit young people trapped in this socialist country’s underground sex tourism industry, a joint investigation by the Toronto Star and El Nuevo Herald, the Spanish-language sister publication of the Miami Herald, has found.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/16/canadians_are_major_customers_in_cubas_child_sex_market.html...Sorry I lack the vocab for what I mean to say .......
Yeh, you were just wrong.:)....Good job the revolution didn't last forever then. Loads of people died in the Irish war of Independence and the Civil War. How many people do the citizens of Eire kill in modern times?
Yes, wars kill people. That's not what we're talking about. We are talking lining people up against a wall and shooting them - the sort of thing that is regarded as a war crime these days. We are talking about deliberately sinking boats that have people on them, that are simply just trying to get away.
Here is a report from the Miami Herald that is only two days old, of the Cuban Coast Guard doing just that. Only one dead this time round.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/12/20/cuba-s-coast-guard-sinks-boat-carrying-32-refugees-who-were-trying-to-reach-fla.
Please wake up and smell the coffee.....
And how many years of economic blockade?
Hang on. 2014 minus 1960 is .... 54 years!....
What country not run by lunatics thinks they aren't better off importing some things?
One that has adopted a socialist economic system....For a range of reasons many neighbouring countries offer their neighbours lives that are nasty brutal and short. Would you, in their shoes?
Well, I wouldn't try and make it to Cuba. And neither does anyone else it seems. Which was the point I was making.0
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