Cuba

wymondham

It was suggested somewhere that people now need to visit Cuba before McDonalds gets there as it will be ruined when it becomes Americanised...

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wymondham wrote: »

It was suggested somewhere that people now need to visit Cuba before McDonalds gets there as it will be ruined when it becomes Americanised...

I'd agree with that.

I will try to visit again this year before it opens up and loses it's charm.

zagubov

wymondham wrote: »

It was suggested somewhere that people now need to visit Cuba before McDonalds gets there as it will be ruined when it becomes Americanised...

You mean before they become like this? :eek:

mystic_trev

Nikkster wrote: »

That's what I meant. As much as it would be interesting for me to go and see this 'other worldly' place, why should Cubans have to live like that? It's a country not a museum.

Cubans (mostly) have a reasonable standard of living with very low unemployment. The Healthcare system is one of the best,if not the best, free healthcare system in the World. OK most of Country don't live like Kings, but having met and spoken with many, they are happy with their lives.It's probably the only truly Socialist Country that has ever succeeded in its aims. When the Yanks arrive the Country will be divided between rich and poor, the poor being the majority. The first thing that will go will be free healthcare, as Doctors head for US riches.

It's the old saying. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

zagubov

mystic_trev wrote: »

Cubans (mostly) have a reasonable standard of living with very low unemployment. The Healthcare system is one of the best,if not the best, free healthcare system in the World. OK most of Country don't live like Kings, but having met and spoken with many, they are happy with their lives.It's probably the only truly Socialist Country that has ever succeeded in its aims. When the Yanks arrive the Country will be divided between rich and poor, the poor being the majority. The first thing that will go will be free healthcare, as Doctors head for US riches.

It's the old saying. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

The crime rate will probably rise. Somebody'll want the death penalty restored. The exiles will want the houses they left behind. Life expectancy will fall.
I'd advise the Cubans to keep as much as they can of what they've got and put every US proposal under an electron microscope. :cool:

antrobus

mystic_trev wrote: »

...It's probably the only truly Socialist Country that has ever succeeded in its aims. ...

You are joking right?

Cuba is a country that struggled to even feed its population once the Soviet money tap was turned off. It's only managed to limp it's way into the 21st century thanks to Venezuelan oil money. (And now that it looks like that well is going to go dry pretty soon.)

You are talking about a country where a 'good job' is one that provides lucha; plenty of stuff that you can steal to sell on. You are talking about a country that still issues ration cards to its population. You are talking about a country where they sell coffee adulterated with peas. You are talking about a country where the exciting news of the Obama-Castro chat was almost overshadowed by the fact that there was fish had appeared on sale for the first time in years. You are talking about a country whose population often risked their lives trying to leave.

Cuba is the country where the motto is "they pretend to pay us and so we only pretend to work".:)

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

Interesting report coming in overnight that the US may normalise its relations with Cuba.

Lots of potential economic impacts...

Cuban economy will fare better overall as a result of not being under sanctions.

Freer movement of capital for families that are divided, with members in the US and Cuba. Will be able to help relatives more freely.

Tourism dividend... many Americans would have liked to have visited Cuba but have not been allowed.

Impact on property... lots of property ownership is disputed as a result of Communist takeover, with Cuban-Americans losing property. Also, will Havana look the same or will it drive a massive facelift?

What will Cubans buy if they have freer access to markets? Will their quirky and iconic cars go?

What will happen to the bits Cuba is good at... e.g. it's healthcare system?

Will iconic Cuban products such as cigars and rum now be available in the US and what will that do for prices?

I think this is going to be an interesting story over the coming months.

Links
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30516740
And one from Fox News saying that Republicans (and some Democrats) will try to block:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/17/american-alan-gross-released-from-cuban-prison-official-says/

The only thing, economically speaking, that Cuba has going for it is the medical system.

Wages are the same for Government employees at US$25/month or US$28/month if you work in the tourism sector. As a result, a waiter in a tourist restaurant earns more than a Doctor. Approximately 80% of workers are employed by the state.

Cuba is seen as something of an ideal by many on the left and they cite the medical system as proof that Cuba 'works'. The imposition of this model comes at a terrible price though. Human rights are regularly abused (link). In the period Jan - Sept 2013, 3,600 people were imprisoned without trial, mostly for criticising the Government. According to the Government itself, in 2013 there were 56,000 political prisoners held in work camps being fed starvation rations and kept in filthy and degrading conditions.

The Government keeps an official list of items which are subject to chronic shortages and so have to be rationed or which are simply unavailable. At present the list consists of potatoes, fruit juice, beer, condoms, toilet paper, salt, toothbrushes, matches, plastic bags, soft drink, chocolate powder, toothpaste, deodorant, laundry soap, razors (there are currently no razors available for sale in Cuba), perfume, talc, fluorescent light tubes, radios, light bulbs, matches, hydrochloric acid, bleach and grease remover. (link)

So in summary, in Cuba the health care is good but you'll be thrown into a labour camp if you criticise the Government and you can't shave or wipe your @r5e. I'll stick with capitalism if that's ok.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

The crime rate will probably rise.

Maybe. But maybe someone will do something about the child prostitutes that you're not supposed to mention.

The worst part was the sex trade. I am use to seeing prostitution in Cuba now but when they are 13 & 14 year old girls.... that's just gross.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g1404717-d256421-r48597764-Club_Amigo_Farallon_del_Caribe_Marea_del_Portillo-Pilon_Granma_Province_Cuba.html

zagubov wrote: »

...Somebody'll want the death penalty restored. ....

Cuba has the death penalty. Granted, they haven't actually executed anybody recently as far as I'm aware. But here's Raul Castro defending keeping it on the statute books.

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=86723

zagubov wrote: »

...The exiles will want the houses they left behind.....

They may well be welcomed with open arms, if they have the money to fix the houses, and stop them falling down.

zagubov wrote: »

.... Life expectancy will fall....

The WHO has Cuban life expectancy at 79.4 years. Compared to US life expertancy of 79.8 years. Can't see much difference myself.

zagubov wrote: »

....I'd advise the Cubans to keep as much as they can of what they've got and put every US proposal under an electron microscope. :cool:

I don't think the Cubans have that much that they want to keep.:)

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

The only thing, economically speaking, that Cuba has going for it is the medical system....

As for the free health care, patients have to bring their own medicine, their own bedsheets, and even their own iodine to the hospital. Most of these items are available only on the illegal black market, moreover, and must be paid for in hard currency — and sometimes they’re not available at all. Cuba has sent so many doctors abroad — especially to Venezuela, in exchange for oil — that the island is now facing a personnel shortage.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/06/06/michael-j-totten-an-eyewitness-account-of-cubas-shocking-wretchedness/

zagubov

antrobus wrote: »

Maybe. But maybe someone will do something about the child prostitutes that you're not supposed to mention.
The worst part was the sex trade. I am use to seeing prostitution in Cuba now but when they are 13 & 14 year old girls.... that's just gross.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g1404717-d256421-r48597764-Club_Amigo_Farallon_del_Caribe_Marea_del_Portillo-Pilon_Granma_Province_Cuba.html

That's awful. Not that it occurs in the US or developing nations of the Caribbean.

antrobus wrote: »

Cuba has the death penalty. Granted, they haven't actually executed anybody recently as far as I'm aware. But here's Raul Castro defending keeping it on the statute books.
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=86723

Still isn't killing you at all, let alone on the industrial scale the US government does, year in, year out.

antrobus wrote: »

They may well be welcomed with open arms, if they have the money to fix the houses, and stop them falling down.

Aye right, that'll solve the people's accommodation problems how exactly?:cool:

Generali wrote: »

The only thing, economically speaking, that Cuba has going for it is the medical system.
Wages are the same for Government employees at US$25/month or US$28/month if you work in the tourism sector. As a result, a waiter in a tourist restaurant earns more than a Doctor. Approximately 80% of workers are employed by the state.
Cuba is seen as something of an ideal by many on the left and they cite the medical system as proof that Cuba 'works'. The imposition of this model comes at a terrible price though. Human rights are regularly abused (link). In the period Jan - Sept 2013, 3,600 people were imprisoned without trial, mostly for criticising the Government. According to the Government itself, in 2013 there were 56,000 political prisoners held in work camps being fed starvation rations and kept in filthy and degrading conditions.
The Government keeps an official list of items which are subject to chronic shortages and so have to be rationed or which are simply unavailable. At present the list consists of potatoes, fruit juice, beer, condoms, toilet paper, salt, toothbrushes, matches, plastic bags, soft drink, chocolate powder, toothpaste, deodorant, laundry soap, razors (there are currently no razors available for sale in Cuba), perfume, talc, fluorescent light tubes, radios, light bulbs, matches, hydrochloric acid, bleach and grease remover. (link
So in summary, in Cuba the health care is good but you'll be thrown into a labour camp if you criticise the Government and you can't shave or wipe your @r5e. I'll stick with capitalism if that's ok.

By any chance are these things that could be imported if there was no blockade?
Are you more likely to end in jail in the US or Cuba?
And how long for?
Or be a victim of crime?
Or executed by the state?
How does it compare with other comparably-sized Caribbean nations? Haiti? Jamaica?