PPC Claims and Counters

BlackSpangle

All,

This is more of a request for summaries than help on any particular ticket. Having read through a few months postings (although I'll bet about 5% of the postings that the regulars do!) it seems that the PPCs operate on the principle that "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with !!!!!!!!".

What I'm attempting to list here are the ways PPCs justify their rather silly figures, and the counters which apply against them. If others can think of more, I'd be grateful to know. The more I know, the better I can try and help others (I'm helping a couple of people offline at the moment). Here goes:

1. Liquidated Damages for breach of T&Cs

The usual one for PPCs. You didn't abide by our exact rules, so now you're due us the £100

Counter: damages must be genuine pre-estimate of loss. Please demonstrate how your damages are calculated, and POPLA at least tend to chuck those out at appeal.

Question: what's the counter for the spurious case that "We pay the landowner £100 for each trespass, so that's how much it costs us"? Do you just say "show us the contract".

2. Contractual Fee

"You agreed to pay a fee of £100 for parking in our car park if you didn't stick to the exact rules"

Counter: You can't make a contract which entitles you to park in breach of terms and conditions, no matter the sum, so this isn't a contractual fee, it's a disguised breach. If it's a disguised breach, the GPEOL applies, and see (1) above.

3. Contractual Fee with Discount

"It costs £100 to park here, but if you buy a ticket for a particular window of time, we reduce that to £2"

(I think I've only seen this one from a PE court case PE in Bristol, but I'm sure there are others)

Counter: The signage would need to make that super-abundantly clear. If the first figure mentioned is £2, then sticking the £100 in small print after a few paragraphs of text does not make it a core term of contract. If it doesn't, then you're claiming damages, and see (1) above.

4. Trespass

"This is our land, and you can't park here unless we like you"

Counter: Is it your land? Prove it. Do the signs make it super clear that unauthorised parking is trespass? If in Scotland, there's no law of trespass anyway, so get lost.

Are there others in the PPC bestiary?

BlackSpangle

BlackSpangle wrote: »

If in Scotland, there's no law of trespass anyway, so get lost.

Turns out that's an urban myth! Well, as a proud Scot, I deserve to feel ashamed.

The_Deep

Question: what's the counter for the spurious case that "We pay the landowner £100 for each trespass, so that's how much it costs us"? Do you just say "show us the contract".



am guessing an audit trail, v.a.t., contract, but get it in front of a judge and he might also ask how they make a profit

bod1467

Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865

The Act applies to a wide variety of private property, although only to lodging, occupation and encampment on such property

So doesn't sound like it would apply to parking in a car park.

BenefitMaster

And in any case, Scotland, like most of Scandinavia, applies "Allemans Ratt" - which means that you can camp pretty much anywhere as long as you don't cause nuisance or offence to another person. A scottish version of "Out of sight, Out of Mind"