Would this be permitted in law?

Takeaway_Addict

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Just tried editing last post but lose formatting as soon as I repost. This board is too cluttered with ads etc.

Eh?

Its an ad free forum...

Captain_Leaky

So to summarize:

I have wasted £16 because I have used PTAS.

I'll have to pay the £100 parking charge plus any costs regardless.

Because the ticket was issued by an unbeatable Parking enforcement company (VCS) the case is unwinnable because they won't give up until they win at any future court case.

And finally, because they are members of the IAS and not the other lot, it is also a waste of time appealing, because the ultimate arbiter is bent.

That's it.

If this is truly the case, I may as well pay up now then.

Great forum.
Thank you for your time.

BenefitMaster

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

I'll have to pay the £100 parking charge plus any costs regardless.

No-one here has said that.

Nodding_Donkey

Or you could defend it in court, with help from here and Pepipoo, and probably pay nothing

Herzlos

You never have to pay and it's certainly not unwinnable. Since they are with the IPC it's a bit harder to deal with because of their corrupt appeal system.

As far as I understand it, their arbiter can be beaten and still isn't binding on you. VCS may eventually take you to small claims court where you can beat them yourself. You're at least as well letting them chase you for a bit and taking a reduced settlement if you want to just pay to get rid of it.

But I'd also be forwarding everything to your local MP.

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Eh?

Its an ad free forum...

It's probably adware crap in the browser embedding ads all over the place.

bazster

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

So to summarize:

I have wasted £16 because I have used PTAS.

Possibly. We shall see.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

I'll have to pay the £100 parking charge plus any costs regardless.

No-one said that.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Because the ticket was issued by an unbeatable Parking enforcement company (VCS) the case is unwinnable because they won't give up until they win at any future court case.

No-one said any of that either. VCS sometimes takes motorists to court, but not often. Impossible to guesstimate your chances of being one of their (rare) cases because you've given us no details. At some of their sites their operation is so dodgy they wouldn't dare bring a court action. And on the rare occasion they do bring an action, they can be beaten. Google VCS vs. Ibbotson for a particularly hilarious example.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

And finally, because they are members of the IAS and not the other lot, it is also a waste of time appealing, because the ultimate arbiter is bent.

Wins at appeal are not unheard of, but the process certainly isn't fair, transparent or independent.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

That's it.

If this is truly the case, I may as well pay up now then.

That's entirely up to you.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Great forum.
Thank you for your time.

What do you want us to do? Stick pins in a voodoo doll of the IAS adjudicator or something? We didn't invent this deeply dodgy system and we have no more power than you to fix it. We're just telling you how it works, not that you have exactly helped us in that by repeatedly providing inaccurate information.

If you don't like it then do the other thing.

Captain_Leaky

I am merely stating that from what I have read - (and there are bold stickies everywhere telling me to do so) - both here and elsewhere, that VCS is one of the more tenacious fighters who doesn't 'walk away' from a fight.

To me, this infers that it is a futile waste of both time and money to take them on.
That is one of the reasons I went with PTAS.

Now, has anyone here actually used these people? What is their success rate?

I have not stated any exact details here because, (as 'Couponmad's tagline says) to do so might not be in my interest. If however, anyone wishes to know more, I'd be happy to do it via PMs.

I understand the following -

That appeals can be lodged on the basis that the charge is grossly unfair in terms of its size. (something referred to as 'pre-loss estimate?)

Does this still stand? And is it what wins most of the time?

Is it ever of any use just to offer the company something like £10 and declare in writing that it is a full and final offer without prejudice? (As is the advice seen on the Good Housekeeping website)

Has anyone here ever used a third party company to fight their charges?

Finally, I do not wish to reach a point whereby this escalates into something which might result in hundreds of pounds worth of court/legal fees which would end up being far in excess of the original charge.

Coupon-mad

VCS is one of the more tenacious fighters who doesn't 'walk away' from a fight.To me, this infers that it is a futile waste of both time and money to take them on.

Not at all, no idea where you got that from because they are not.

Look at the NTK. Since they joined the IPC, they no longer even have keeper liability. They don't use a POFA version any more and can only aim their charges at a driver. So a keeper who never says who was driving is untouchable (but still won't win at IAS appeal but that's the fault of IAS/IPC, not because VCS are some sort of lionhearted PPC!). VCS only very rarely try court - and did you not realise that the POFA protects a keeper in terms of capping the maximum that can be claimed, to the amount of the parking charge plus court fee (typically £150 if someone loses, altogether, and no CCJ if then paid). And this is a firm who haven't complied with the POFA anyway - read what it says in the NTK blurb about pursuing you as keeper, only: 'assuming you were the driver'!

{Re GPEOL} Does this still stand? And is it what wins most of the time?

Not at IAS, nope. Yes if they had been a BPA firm, yes in a small claim defence. Car park 'postcode lottery' isn't it?

Is it ever of any use just to offer the company something like £10 and declare in writing that it is a full and final offer without prejudice? (As is the advice seen on the Good Housekeeping website)

No way. Certainly not from a keeper who isn't liable in law, as VCS don't bother with the POFA/keeper liability any more.

Has anyone here ever used a third party company to fight their charges?

This is a difficult one for some of us to answer!! There are more choices in the offing than just PTAS and they are the only ones we know of with the 'service address' ducking & diving approach. Lots of newbies have used them but as per the Parking Prankster's Blog, I can't recommend them because of the change of company and the way they appear to have a bucket full of holes as far as protecting people with an IPC charge is concerned. They will/do NOT win most IAS appeals and last time I knew about it they were not bothering to try, which is understandable given the general reputation of IAS which has been painted by some, as a kangaroo court.

But bottom line, IMHO, if you have a firm who needs to know/can only aim the charge at the driver (rather like the situation in Scotland) why the heck would anyone think it's a good plan for the untouchable registered keeper to name that driver (service address or not?!).

I think that is all I can say, just facts. I am not the best person to be passing judgement on a firm that deals with appeals so will steer clear of this thread now.

hoohoo

There is no point in 'paying up now' because the appeals company you have used guarantees to pay up for you if they lose the appeal.

Meanwhile. GPEOL is no longer a winner at the IAS. They now require the motorist to prove the charge is not a GPEOL, as per the G24 thread.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5119472

Ironically, there is plenty of proof that VCS charge is not a GPEOL, but I cannot see a IAS assessor being willing to wade through that for their £21 fee.

bazster

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

I am merely stating that from what I have read - (and there are bold stickies everywhere telling me to do so) - both here and elsewhere, that VCS is one of the more tenacious fighters who doesn't 'walk away' from a fight.

Rubbish, you didn't read that here.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

To me, this infers that it is a futile waste of both time and money to take them on.
That is one of the reasons I went with PTAS.

See above.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Now, has anyone here actually used these people?

Of course we haven't, we know these processes inside-out, we have no need to pay someone else to win or lose (as the case may be) on our account.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

What is their success rate?

Ask them.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

I understand the following -

That appeals can be lodged on the basis that the charge is grossly unfair in terms of its size. (something referred to as 'pre-loss estimate?)

Does this still stand? And is it what wins most of the time?

It wins ALL the time at PoPLA, but not at the IAS. Have a look at the Prankster's blog to see what kinds of nonsense the IAS comes up with in respect of GPEOL:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/independent-parking-committee-kangaroo.html

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Is it ever of any use just to offer the company something like £10 and declare in writing that it is a full and final offer without prejudice? (As is the advice seen on the Good Housekeeping website)

With VCS it is unlikely to achieve anything beyond confirming to them that you are running scared and need to have more pressure applied. Good Housekeeping website? If that's where you are getting authoritative advice then good luck, you're on your own.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Has anyone here ever used a third party company to fight their charges?

Same answer as the first time you asked this.

Captain_Leaky wrote: »

Finally, I do not wish to reach a point whereby this escalates into something which might result in hundreds of pounds worth of court/legal fees which would end up being far in excess of the original charge.

So what do you expect us to do about it? You seem to think you are owed some magic solution by the folks here who are giving their time for free. Well if you don't like the answers here I for one will happily refund what you've paid for them. I will not be posting again on your threads.