Right to Return Online Sale

unholyangel

JReacher1 wrote: »

"Bespoke" is referenced in the official implementation document of this legislation. It is not specifically stated in the legislation as it is a word that has several meanings. Therefore legally it is specifically stated as "goods made to the customer specification". Which ironically is exactly what this bracelet was (so seems like you agree with me in that it is ineligible for return)

I don't agree with you that "not all bespoke items are made to the consumer specification". The definition of "bespoke" is commisioned to a specification so I am intrigued as to what bespoke items you believe are not made to a customer specification?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bespoke?searchDictCode=all

British
1(Of goods, especially clothing) made to order:
a bespoke suit

Again I repeat, the legislation itself uses the phrase "goods made to the customers specification or clearly personalised" and not the word bespoke.

If it is an option offered readily by the retailer (rather than being something they can do upon request) then it is not exempt from the regulations.

However if you wish to argue that all bespoke items are exempt, please see my very first post on the thread in which the guidance states an item selected from the available range "will not be bespoke for the purpose of these regulations".

Quite clear that made to order does not make it clearly personalised or made to the customers specifications.

And i've already explained the difference. If you are selecting from available options, it is not the customer who is giving the specifications, they are merely choosing from the range of specifications offered by the retailer.

If i order ribbon - and the retailer offers options of 1m, 5m, or 10m. That is their specification. If i ask the retailer to provide me a length of 1.2m, that is made to my (the customers) specification.

See the difference?

shaun_from_Africa

JReacher1 wrote: »

Therefore legally it is specifically stated as "goods made to the customer specification". Which ironically is exactly what this bracelet was (so seems like you agree with me in that it is ineligible for return

So how do explain the fact that under the DSR's (which had the same exemption for clearly personalised goods), items such as computers which were assembled according to the customers wishes were not exempted from the right of cancelation.

If I order a bracelet and there is no list of sizes for me to choose from and I state that I want it made 15cm long then it is being made specifically for me to my specifications and I can't return it.

However, if I want a 15cm long bracelet and the retailer has a choice of sizes available for me to pick from then I am choosing from a selection of "off the peg" bracelets, hence it's not being made specifically for me.

JReacher1

So to clarify these goods weren't made to the customers specification?

Seems quite clearly that they were....

You're too hung up on options. You seem to be saying an item that has options can never be bespoke which is obviously false.

You've neglected to provide a bespoke item that is not made to a customers specification?

JReacher1

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

So how do explain the fact that under the DSR's (which had the same exemption for clearly personalised goods), items such as computers which were assembled according to the customers wishes were not exempted from the right of cancelation.

If I order a bracelet and there is no list of sizes for me to choose from and I state that I want it made 15cm long then it is being made specifically for me to my specifications and I can't return it.

However, if I want a 15cm long bracelet and the retailer has a choice of sizes available for me to pick from then I am choosing from a selection of "off the peg" bracelets, hence it's not being made specifically for me.

These bracelets are made to order not off the shelf. The website just lists all sizes for ease of ordering. It standardises the measurements and stops people using different units of measure eg cm, inches, mm.

They're not really options. Just an easier way for the customer to order.

unholyangel

JReacher1 wrote: »

So to clarify these goods weren't made to the customers specification?

Seems quite clearly that they were....

You're too hung up on options. You seem to be saying an item that has options can never be bespoke which is obviously false.

You've neglected to provide a bespoke item that is not made to a customers specification?

I've given a few different examples.

And not really sure how clearer I could make it. If the retailer offers that option as standard, it is their (the retailers) specification - not the consumers. It is a standard option - on offer to everyone and therefore not to the customers specifications.

JReacher1

unholyangel wrote: »

I've given a few different examples.

And not really sure how clearer I could make it. If the retailer offers that option as standard, it is their (the retailers) specification - not the consumers. It is a standard option - on offer to everyone and therefore not to the customers specifications.

i think the problem I have with you is that you have your own inaccurate interpretation of the legislation and then just insist that is right for all scenarios. It's this narrowmindedness which makes you extremely unhelpful in situations like this.

As has already been posted by a different poster it varies on a case by case basis.

In this scenario the item is cleary exempt due to the bespoke nature of the product.

You can continue to post your inaccurate statements until the cows come home but it doesn't alter the fundamental fact that the OP will only get a refund if the business (a charity) decides to refund, which legally they don't have to do.

unholyangel

JReacher1 wrote: »

i think the problem I have with you is that you have your own inaccurate interpretation of the legislation and then just insist that is right for all scenarios. It's this narrowmindedness which makes you extremely unhelpful in situations like this.

As has already been posted by a different poster it varies on a case by case basis.

In this scenario the item is cleary exempt due to the bespoke nature of the product.

You can continue to post your inaccurate statements until the cows come home but it doesn't alter the fundamental fact that the OP will only get a refund if the business (a charity) decides to refund, which legally they don't have to do.

Yes....my own interpretation which just happens to be backed up by bis guidance on governments website *rolls eyes*.

If you'd actually read my replies you'd realise I have not said it is the same in every situation. I even said I agree in some situations it is a very subtle difference.

So lets see how your accuracy rating goes. So far just from memory you've stated I havent provided any examples, that its purely my own interpretation and that i'm insisting its right in all scenarios - all of which are false.

Not to mention you say as posted by another user it goes on a case by case basis.....the same user who repeated what I had already posted - including providing the exact same link I did in post #2 on this thread.

Do take a look in the mirror before you start throwing stones lovey.

JReacher1

unholyangel wrote: »

Yes....my own interpretation which just happens to be backed up by bis guidance on governments website *rolls eyes*.

If you'd actually read my replies you'd realise I have not said it is the same in every situation. I even said I agree in some situations it is a very subtle difference.

So lets see how your accuracy rating goes. So far just from memory you've stated I havent provided any examples, that its purely my own interpretation and that i'm insisting its right in all scenarios - all of which are false.

Not to mention you say as posted by another user it goes on a case by case basis.....the same user who repeated what I had already posted - including providing the exact same link I did in post #2 on this thread.

Do take a look in the mirror before you start throwing stones lovey.

Your examples were so bad I chose to ignore it as I didn't want to continue to criticise you (I've noticed before you are very sensitive when you are confronted)

But if you want to go there, you basically claimed that every item is bespoke because it's made to a specification. For instance a 5 mm ribbon is bespoke because it's the company's specification. Or a size 12 pair of trousers is bespoke because they are made to the specification of a size 12.

I just couldn't be bothered opening this door into ridiculousness!

Still I know you love to argue. This is going to end up with another one of your fake statistics again

unholyangel

JReacher1 wrote: »

Your examples were so bad I chose to ignore it as I didn't want to continue to criticise you (I've noticed before you are very sensitive when you are confronted)

But if you want to go there, you basically claimed that every item is bespoke because it's made to a specification. For instance a 5 mm ribbon is bespoke because it's the company's specification. Or a size 12 pair of trousers is bespoke because they are made to the specification of a size 12.

I just couldn't be bothered opening this door into ridiculousness!

Still I know you love to argue. This is going to end up with another one of your fake statistics again

Not sensitive - otherwise I would resort to personal attacks like you chose to

I do however get exasperated with people who keep insisting their views are right - when there is either legislation, an official source or plenty of reliable sources stating the exact opposite - without being able to provide a shred of proof for it other than their own personal "say so".

As for yet another baseless allegation - I said no such thing.

As for the rest....as I said....do take a look in the mirror before you throw stones lovey.

OlliesDad

JReacher1 wrote: »

But if you want to go there, you basically claimed that every item is bespoke because it's made to a specification. For instance a 5 mm ribbon is bespoke because it's the company's specification. Or a size 12 pair of trousers is bespoke because they are made to the specification of a size 12.
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Isn't this what you are claiming though? The website in question lists several sizes in the same way clothes retailers do?