Advice Needed

jdderbys

Hi,

Me and my partner are purchasing our first house. The seller is in a chain ready to complete.

The seller and us agreed a completion date of 17th Dec. Both solicitors we made aware verbally in writing.

Our solicitor is now saying the rest of the chain wont go till Jan 9th and that despite our agreement with the seller its not possible for this to happen.

Is this correct?

On another note our solicitor has been very dishonest. He told us he sent paperwork when he hadnt, told us and the agents on 3 seperate occasions we would be exchanging the next day. He has told us and the agents that the 17th is ok. Then told us the 18th Dec. Then changed it to 17th Dec. Then stated Jan 9th. Then on contract signing told us Dec 18th, then as soon as he had recieved the signed contract (10 minutes later) told us the chain wanted to delay again and Jan 9th is the only day they will go.

He has told us one thing, told the sellers solicitors another and the agents another different story. He clearly didnt realise we are all in daily contact. We called him out on this when he was getting his lies mixed up but he pretty much changed his story again and just says 'i will call the rest of the chain again and see what i can do'. We then usually get ignored till a 4:45pm bad news phone call we cant do anything about as he goes home for the day.

We have compiled a timeline of each of the untruths we have been told as we are going to be making a complaint to his company.

Does anyone have any advise for us?

All we really want is the agreed 17th Dec completion with the seller. The way things are going i cant see that happening

Thanks

G_M

jdderbys wrote: »

Hi,

Me and my partner are purchasing our first house. The seller is in a chain ready to complete.Except that they don't want to Complete before Jan 9th....

The seller and us agreed a completion date of 17th Dec. Both solicitors we made aware verbally in writing. If you are both willing & able to Complete (ie including your seller will have somewhere to live!) then you can Compete as agreed on 17 Dec

Our solicitor is now saying the rest of the chain wont go till Jan 9th and that despite our agreement with the seller its not possible for this to happen. Well, if your seller needs somewhere to move to (ie he's buying somewhere up the chain, & that person won't sell to him before Jan, he can't sell to you, can he?

Is this correct? Depends if your seller is willing to move in with his mum between Dec 17th and Jan 9th! Ask him.

On another note our solicitor has been very dishonest. He told us he sent paperwork when he hadnt,
Cannot comment without details
told us and the agents on 3 seperate occasions we would be exchanging the next day.
If he believed Exchange would be next day, and then the other side, or someone else up the chain, refused to Exchange for some reason, it was beyond his control. But he was right to warn you Exchange was expected the next day. You'd be p*ssed off if he just Exchanged for you without warning!

He has told us and the agents that the 17th is ok. Then told us the 18th Dec. Then changed it to 17th Dec. Then stated Jan 9th. Then on contract signing told us Dec 18th, then as soon as he had recieved the signed contract (10 minutes later) told us the chain wanted to delay again and Jan 9th is the only day they will go.
All dates are provisional until Exchange actually takes place. There are 101 reasons why Exchange can be delayed, and Competion dates can only be fixed when everyone in the chain has agreed and Excange has happened.

Welcome to property buying!

And I'll bet he never'told you' these dates. But said 'Yes they were possible' or We'll aim for...". No date is fixed till Exchange.

He has told us one thing, told the sellers solicitors another and the agents another different story. He clearly didnt realise we are all in daily contact. We called him out on this when he was getting his lies mixed up but he pretty much changed his story again and just says 'i will call the rest of the chain again and see what i can do'. We then usually get ignored till a 4:45pm bad news phone call we cant do anything about as he goes home for the day.
Probably he can't get in touch with all 15 other peple in the chain. Or he contacted their solicitors, and they had to check with their clients. It all takes time. And if just one of those clients changes their mind ("my mother is sick so I can't Complete till next Jan") then the whole chain must wait.

We have compiled a timeline of each of the untruths we have been told as we are going to be making a complaint to his company.
You are wasting your time.

Does anyone have any advise for us?
Yes. Recognise that house buying is stressful. It is expensive. It is slow. and most imprtantly, it is uncertain. Nothing is guaranteed till you Exchange. Any dates you discuss, or aim for, are provisional only.

All we really want is the agreed 17th Dec completion with the seller. The way things are going i cant see that happening

Thanks

Relax, or you will have a heart attack.

The 17th will only happen if

* every single person in the chain agrees AND Exchange happens before one of them changes their mind OR

* your seller agrees to sell on the 17th and move out, into his mum's/friend's/rented/hotel so that you can move in

He then has to hope to god that his own purchase goes ahead on Jan 9th or he'll be stuck with his mum!

jdderbys

sorry i may not have been as clear as i should have been.

Our seller is moving out on Dec 17th either way. They are spending xmas and new year with family. Almost all of their possessions are boxed up ready to go. Their reason for moving is to be closer to family to reduce child care costs so they have somewhere to go. They even told us this on the day of offer and have made the agents and their solicitor away of this verbally and in writing.

While the rest of the chain are happy to complete on Jan 9th our seller is willing to complete with us on Dec 17th and stay with family (which is their plan for xmas anyway).

Our solicitor says despite both parties willingness to complete on Dec 17th nothing can happen without the rest of the chain agreeing. We really want to know if this is a legal requirement or if its possible for our section (bottom) of the chain to complete earlier than the rest?

I must admit to being a bit naive about the process and relying on our solicitor too much. The solicitor told us and the agents we would be exchanging the next day before we even signed the contract. We only found out a few days later he hadnt even drafted or sent it too us and that legally exchange cannot happen without our signiture on documents he had never sent or told us about (my naivety and lack of knowledge about the process makes me a little embarrassed not realising this glaring issue at the time) that same day he told the sellers solicitor we were deliberately holding up the chain due to having not sent the bank a 'gift' letter for the deposit.

The gift letter was received and ok'd by the bank 3 weeks prior and they have since confirmed they would have never allowed us to sign the mortgage papers without it. The solicitor told us, the agents and my partners father (who the gift was from) there was no issue with it. But kept telling the sellers solicitor and other parts of the chain the bank had told him they had never received up right up until a few days ago when we lost patience and had the bank send our solicitor and all parties an email to confirm there has never been a problem their end with the letter.

G_M

jdderbys wrote: »

sorry i may not have been as clear as i should have been.

Our seller is moving out on Dec 17th either way. They are spending xmas and new year with family. Almost all of their possessions are boxed up ready to go. Their reason for moving is to be closer to family to reduce child care costs so they have somewhere to go. They even told us this on the day of offer and have made the agents and their solicitor away of this verbally and in writing.

Then there IS no chain, and mentioning it is just a red herring and irrelevant. I've been wasting my very valuable time. My bill to you is in the post.

Our solicitor says despite both parties willingness to complete on Dec 17th nothing can happen without the rest of the chain agreeing. We really want to know if this is a legal requirement or if its possible for our section (bottom) of the chain to complete earlier than the rest?
Ask your solicitor why. Unless there is something you have not mentioned, I can think of only one reason the seller should not sell to you on Dec 17th:

If the seller needs to be certain that he will Complete his own purchase on Jan 9th, then he needs to Exchange simultaneously with you on his sale and with his seller on his purchase. The two Exchanges are thus done together (locking in the 2 deals contractually) but the Completion dates can be different.

However, if his seller is not ready/willing to Exchange, then your seller is unlikely to commit to his sale (since his puchase may fall through).


I must admit to being a bit naive about the process and relying on our solicitor too much.
Go to the library nd borrow (free) a book on property buying. It will explain the process.

The solicitor told us and the agents we would be exchanging the next day before we even signed the contract. We only found out a few days later he hadnt even drafted or sent it too us and that legally exchange cannot happen without our signiture on documents he had never sent or told us about (my naivety and lack of knowledge about the process makes me a little embarrassed not realising this glaring issue at the time) that same day he told the sellers solicitor we were deliberately holding up the chain due to having not sent the bank a 'gift' letter for the deposit.
well, maybe you have a cr*p solicitor. Where did you find him?

The gift letter was received and ok'd by the bank 3 weeks prior and they have since confirmed they would have never allowed us to sign the mortgage papers without it. The solicitor told us, the agents and my partners father (who the gift was from) there was no issue with it. But kept telling the sellers solicitor and other parts of the chain the bank had told him they had never received up right up until a few days ago when we lost patience and had the bank send our solicitor and all parties an email to confirm there has never been a problem their end with the letter.

Go in to your solicitor's office and ask to see him.

Si down and ask why you cannot Exchange, with Dec as the Completion date.

Take your mobile if you have one and have your seller standing by at the end of the phone, so if your solicitor blames the seller, you can pseak there and then.

(please don't tell us you are using a 'cheap' online conveyancing firm and can't go in.......!)

ACG

Who is your lender?
Are you using a broker?

As GM says, effectively there is no chain as your vendor is breaking it in order to allow you/them to complete.

The issue here is that time is becomign very tight - a lot of lenders like there to be a week between requesting funds and drawing down on them - although this is not set in stone with most lenders.

If you and vendor are happy with the 17th and the lender can do it also then there is no reason for it not be possible but you need to kick some !!! on monday otherwise it will be time that prevents it rather than the solicitor.

jdderbys

The lender is HSBC. They have been great since day one and the morgage advisor has bent over backwards to assist us the last few weeks to show that things our solicitor has told the other parties is not true.

The solicitors are not local to us. We went with Premier Solicitors based on an agent recommendation. It has since transpired their usual person has recently left and its being handled by someone they have never used and they are is frustrated as we have become with them. They have also done there utmost to assist and have become unhappy at being told entirely different things to us and the sellers solicitors (often within the space of 20 minutes)

jdderbys

Thankyou for the feedback. Its really appreciated. Our solicitor is adamant that the whole chain must complete on the same day despite being told by both us and the seller that we are being willing to go early on our part. He's told us legally that the top of the chain must be involved due to the money transfers upwards. I think this is what is making things frustrating as we cant seem to get an honest answer.

It was really stupid of us, but when out solicitor told both us and the agents that now everything was complete and we would exchange the next day at lunchtime for completion on the 17th Dec, we went ahead and booked a moving company for the 19th and paid the non refundable deposit. It was stupid and we have learnt our lesson. When we told the solicitor his response was that we had made the mistake in going early and should eat the loss and be willing to be flexible on dates

G_M

jdderbys wrote: »

..
The solicitors are not local to us. We went with Premier Solicitors based on an agent recommendation.

Oops! :rotfl:

Our solicitor is adamant that the whole chain must complete on the same day despite being told by both us and the seller that we are being willing to go early on our part. He's told us legally that the top of the chain must be involved due to the money transfers upwards.

Ah. Yet more new information.

So (I extrapolate) your seller has allowed the (10%?) deposit you are paying him on Exchange to be used as the basis of each persons deposit in the chain. Probably as the property prices increase up the chain, each person is agreeing a smaller deposit (8%, 6%, 5%) so that the amount is always the same as your 10%.

Thus no deposit money is actually changing hands apart from your initial 10% which your solicior holds, and which forms the basis of everyone's deposit.

Consequently the chain does exist.

To complete independantly, your seller must make clear to his solicitor that when he Exchanges on his purchase, he will pay his full 10 % deposit, in cash (ie not linked in any way to the 10% you are paying him). The chain will be broken and you can Exchange/Complete independantly of everyone else.

Any more information your solicitor has given you that you have not yet told us........?

jdderbys

I didnt think that was new information as i had no idea that an upwards deposit could happen.

My thinking was that we and the seller agreed the date, our solicitor said ok, than said no due to the chain, then said yes again, then said yes again with a different date, then said yes again with the original date. Now he has all the paperwork complete signed and the money is being drawn down that he has changed it to a no again based on his original no of the chain needing to be involved.

I'll never make the mistake again of using a solicitor that is not local that i cant deal with face to face. These bad news 5 minutes before he leaves for the day calls after spending an entire day chasing for an update on his answer phone is getting old now.

I wrongly assumed that as 1st time buyers, with a signed gift letter, a mortgage agreement and a date agreement back with the sellers back in Nov of before xmas that this would be a simple process. I've definitely learnt my lesson

G_M

It should be simple.

The fault lies with

* your seller, who has not made clear to his solicitor that your deposit is not to be used as his deposit.

* his solicitor, who has not explained to his client (your seller) the consequences of linking the deposits

* your solicitor, who has not explained to his client (you) the consequences of your seller linking the deposits

You now know what to do on Monday.

rosie383

I think the OP possibly doesn't know what to do on Monday. Sounds as if everything is very confused and will he even know the right questions to be asking tomorrow? I suspect not. And that is not in any way meant as a derogatory statement OP. I just wonder if you have everything clear in your own mind about where you stand as judging from your posts I suspect not. Good luck.