DESPERATELY WORRIED PLEASE HELP(living with partner benefits)

worrywortcrystal

I think I may be unintentionally committing benefit fraud and am now in a complete state of panic. Of course I am going to confess my mistake and try to rectify the situation, first thing monday morning, but I am terrified of the outcome! Here is my situation...

I have a heart condition and am unable to work, I am currently on ESA work related activity group. I live in my grandparents house with them and have done for 9 years, before i moved in they where renting their spare room out to (lets just call him..) CHRIS. When I could no longer work and afford my rent I moved in with them, and CHRIS had to give up his room for me, but they allowed him to continue living in their home. Its convenient for him as he works just across the road, only part time so he is on a low income and the rent they charge is cheap enough for him. He has one of those fold away bed thingys and sleeps in their second living room (meant to be a dining room but they didnt use it, its not a mansion or anything just a two bed house). Anyway, I have been good friends with chris for many years, he accompanies me shopping as i get out of breath carrying heavy bags, besides doing the shopping i dont really go out much. 6 months ago we found ourselves being single at the same time, which hadnt happened all the time i had known him, one thing lead to another and we are now in a relationship.
As it is my grandparents own home, I did not realise i needed to change my claim to a joint one, i genuinely thought living together as man and wife meant having your own home together and sharing bills etc. Financially we are seperate, both pay rent seperately to my grandparents as always, dont have a joint bank account or any children or anything. I have been informed by a friend that I am committing benefit fraud, and we are classed as living together as a couple. So of course I am going to contact them as soon as and tell them we are in a relationship, but i am terrified! We have only been in a relationship for a few months, but because we have been living together (under the same roof anyways) for 9 years will they accuse us of being together that whole time? How can I prove we havent been? How do they investigate this sort of thing? will they ask friends and neighbours how long we have been together? or my grandparents? As you can imagine if we had been together for the whole 9 years the overpayment would be huge, so will they prosecute and take me to court? Im worried out of my mind, im happy to repay what i have been overpaid it was a genuine mistake. But i dont want to be taken to court or charged for the whole time he has lived with me, how can i prove it? Should i see a solicitor before i tell the DWP my situation?? Please help me... im so scared

p.s chris does not claim any benefits of any kind, works 20 hours a week. i claim esa only NOT housing benefit as i live with relatives

tomtom256

Have you started to share this room you rent?

Presumably he has a tenancy agreement?

Do you have any joint credit

It's fairly straight forward, just ring and notify a change in your circumstances. Advise the DWP that teh above and explain that it ha sbeen going on for 6 months etc.

They will probably invite you for a compliance interview and should adjust your benefit accordingly.

Unlikely they will go for the 9 years unless there is any evidence of a relationship for that long.

Just tell the truth and let them sort it.

rogerblack

As above.
To extend the point of 'have you started to share'.
In order to be required to claim couples benefits, you need to be 'living together as man and wife'.
The second part is seemingly met without controversy.
The first may not arguably be the case, if you are not sharing a room.

This depends on the exact form of the tenancy or other agreement he has with the grandparents.

I suspect however this isn't a strong argument.

pmlindyloo

The OP's boyfriend is a lodger, not a tenant.

If you declare that you are living together as man and wife and they agree that you are then your ESA will be stopped as I am presuming it is income based (since you are in the WRAG group and have been claiming for over a year)

This will mean that your boyfriend will have to support you financially as all his income will be used against your ESA and you will have no money of your own (unless you receive DLA/PIP)

Is he happy to do this and are you happy to have no money of your own?

You may want to consider other options since, for the last few months, your relationship has become 'intimate' (again, another assumption on my part)

He could move out. How old is he?

On a low wage he may be entitled to some other benefits - housing benefit/council tax/support. He could increase his hours and then may be entitled to some working tax credits. (He needs to do 30 hrs for tax credits)

Or you could move in together and be eligible for some benefits.

I am not suggesting that you do these things only that they may need to be considered depending on whether this is a long term relationship or not.

epitome

DOES HE HAVE A TENNANCY AGREEMENT?

DO YOU SHARE YOUR ROOM?

DO YOU SUPPORT EACH OTHER FINANCIALLY, FOOD, BILLS ETC?

It seems to me, that you are not Living Together As Husband and Wife.

You are living as flat mates who live seperately but who have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

What you should do is notify the DWP the date things changed, & that you do not consider yourselves as "Living Together". They may make a decision based on a form they will send you a "Living Together" form. Or they may send someone to interview you both in your home, and then make a decesion. If they decide that you are Living Together, you can ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration and then later you can take this to appeal.

HOWEVER, you should have declared 9 years ago that you lived in the same house as your grandparents and their lodger Chris (although there is an argument if he had a tennancy agreement, that he would not have to be declared on your claim because he was not in the same household as you.)
Even if he doesn't have a tennacy agreement there is a landlord/tennant relationship between him and the houseowner and he would not be classed as within the same household, it's just easier to show if there is a tennancy agreement.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

epitome wrote: »

DOES HE HAVE A TENNANCY AGREEMENT?

DO YOU SHARE YOUR ROOM?

DO YOU SUPPORT EACH OTHER FINANCIALLY, FOOD, BILLS ETC?

It seems to me, that you are not Living Together As Husband and Wife.

You are living as flat mates who live seperately but who have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

What you should do is notify the DWP the date things changed, & that you do not consider yourselves as "Living Together". They may make a decision based on a form they will send you a "Living Together" form. Or they may send someone to interview you both in your home, and then make a decesion. If they decide that you are Living Together, you can ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration and then later you can take this to appeal.

HOWEVER, you should have declared 9 years ago that you lived in the same house as your grandparents and their lodger Chris (although there is an argument if he had a tennancy agreement, that he would not have to be declared on your claim because he was not in the same household as you.)

Sleeping in the same bedroom doesn't define living together under the regulations. My Local Authority successfully prosecuted a couple who argued that because they were not yet married, slept in separate bedrooms and not yet had a sexual relationship because of their religious convictions and were waiting to get married they shouldn't be classed as a couple - we won - they were successfully prosecuted for fraud.

For benefit purposes they will be considered to be partners and living together irrespective of their actual sleeping arrangements.

pmlindyloo

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

Sleeping in the same bedroom doesn't define living together under the regulations. My Local Authority successfully prosecuted a couple who argued that because they were not yet married, slept in separate bedrooms and not yet had a sexual relationship because of their religious convictions and were waiting to get married they shouldn't be classed as a couple - we won - they were successfully prosecuted for fraud.

For benefit purposes they will be considered to be partners and living together irrespective of their actual sleeping arrangements.

So under what criteria were they prosecuted? - ie what evidence did the LA use?

In the case you quote the couple were getting married so were committed to each other.

When does the 'living as man and wife' change from boyfriend and girlfriend?

Not being argumentative, just interested. Usually the cases I have come across is when they have separate households and can prove this.

In this particular case could it be argued (as Epitome suggested) that they are separate households even if living under the same roof?

pmlindyloo

epitome wrote: »

DOES HE HAVE A TENNANCY AGREEMENT?

DO YOU SHARE YOUR ROOM?

DO YOU SUPPORT EACH OTHER FINANCIALLY, FOOD, BILLS ETC?

It seems to me, that you are not Living Together As Husband and Wife.

You are living as flat mates who live seperately but who have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

What you should do is notify the DWP the date things changed, & that you do not consider yourselves as "Living Together". They may make a decision based on a form they will send you a "Living Together" form. Or they may send someone to interview you both in your home, and then make a decesion. If they decide that you are Living Together, you can ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration and then later you can take this to appeal.

HOWEVER, you should have declared 9 years ago that you lived in the same house as your grandparents and their lodger Chris (although there is an argument if he had a tennancy agreement, that he would not have to be declared on your claim because he was not in the same household as you.)

This is quite interesting:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/337665/dmgch43.pdf

43027 onwards

epitome

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

Sleeping in the same bedroom doesn't define living together under the regulations

I didn't say it did. But if they are sleeping in the same bed in the same bedroom for most nights of the week that would be significant bit of evidence to decide that they are LT. If they do not share the same bedroom then that will be a bit of evidence (but not enough on its own) to determine that they are not LT. Which is why I also asked if they support each other financially or otherwise.

Although even sharing the same bedroom is not enough to say they are LT.

My Local Authority successfully prosecuted a couple who argued that because they were not yet married, slept in separate bedrooms and not yet had a sexual relationship because of their religious convictions and were waiting to get married they shouldn't be classed as a couple - we won - they were successfully prosecuted for fraud.

Yes, LT in a platonic relationship, supporting each other would be seen as LTAHW

rogerblack

pmlindyloo wrote: »

In this particular case could it be argued (as Epitome suggested) that they are separate households even if living under the same roof?

This is the interesting part.
'HAW' is not controversial in this case.
'LT' is more interesting.

The argument:
'He does not use my private space as part of his living space, therefore we are not using the two households as one, therefore there are two separate households'.
This is not 'working away' - where the fact he's away for work reasons would not matter.

Would the decision turn on the use of shared facilities?

gibson1

Do you live in the same room? If not then you are still 'single.' A partner is defined as someone who is in partnership with you, sharing living expenses, bedroom.

Chris is a housemate, and who you choose to have sex with is your business.