UKPC Parking Charge - My Fault?

BlueWolf62126

Hello,

Firstly, I would just like to say how grateful I am for this forum and how much effort everyone has put into some of the threads here. I have read the main stickied NEWBIE thread - but I am not sure whether my circumstances help me or not in this case.

Yesterday evening at around 10pm, I found a Parking Charge on my car's windscreen from UKPC - the first time I have ever got such a "charge" in my years of driving. Naturally I was shocked and annoyed because I thought that after 8pm the car park in question was free. (I could swear it used to be, and I think their new "pay and display 24 hours a day" only came into effect after the larger car park across the road - which was free after 8pm - closed earlier this week for redevelopment.)

Anyway, after then reading the signs in the car park, I immediately realised my apparent error - I had assumed that the car park monitored by UKPC was free after 8pm but it was not (not anymore at least). A genuine mistake on my part and I honestly have no-one else to blame for not checking the signs properly but myself. I do think that the signs were poorly lit but that's probably quite weak legally as they were still visible.

The Parking Charge is the standard £100 but reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days. Their reasoning was "parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket". I was parked from approximately 8pm until 10pm (cinema with my girlfriend) - and as you can imagine the car park at that time of night was barely half full. They have also taken pictures of my car and the parking sign.

So really, I'm wondering what legal ground (if any) I could stand on if I did appeal or waited for the NTK in around 28 days time? Can I still appeal with the genuine pre-estimate of loss angle? Granted it was my fault for not reading the signs, but £100 / £60 is a ridiculous amount of money when it costs a mere £1.40 per hour if I had paid and displayed properly (which I have never not done before yesterday).

Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

Redx

doesnt really matter what the circumstances are, the punishment doesnt fit the "crime"

just wait for the NTK and appeal as RK using the template in the NEWBIES thread

Guys_Dad

It's all there in the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum. We help people help themselves and, as c-m says "we always help a trier. We don't reply if people can't be arsed to read it."

Read it and then ask what you are still stuck with.

BlueWolf62126

Thanks for the quick responses.

Guys_Dad wrote: »

It's all there in the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum. We help people help themselves and, as c-m says "we always help a trier. We don't reply if people can't be arsed to read it."

Read it and then ask what you are still stuck with.

I fully appreciate that and I am quite aware of forum etiquette and behaviour, etc. I have read the NEWBIES thread but simply want clarification that I can use the appeal template given my circumstances (as it was my fault).

Redx

so the landowner is out of pocket by a few pounds, plus the cost of collection

so say between £10 and £18 including chasing and collection

hence why the charge is not a gpeol

as I said, the punishment doesnt fit the crime

guys dad explained this once a year or two ago in one of his replies

BlueWolf62126

Thanks, Redx, much appreciated.

Just one other thing - on the back of the 'Charge', UKPC say that after 28 days, they will request my details from DVLA and get a 'debt recovery agency' involved (etc.) - at which point there will be another charge of £60 levied, making the total at that point £160 (crazy). I'm presuming that UKPC won't mention the NTK on the back of the 'Charge', but will issue it anyway and not levy this additional surcharge too if I appeal to them with the template here?

Redx

not sure I understand the above (never had a pcn from UKPC)

let us get this straight

the DRIVER received a windscreen pcn last night

after 28 days UKPC will ask the DVLA for the RK details and will then try to make them liable for this pcn

the two may be the same person , or may be different

so none of the I DID THIS blah blah

its the driver did this on the day, the RK received blah blah , dont drop yourself in it like many others do

its a no comment scenario, admit nothing , make the justify everything

and they have up to 6 years to chase somebody for this invoice, even by debt recovery or by court, hence you appeal and kill it off at popla if they are still in the BPA

any extra charges could be demanded but that doesnt mean they are justifiable and if you read the debt collectors section in the newbies thread, we advocate IGNORE

like I said, the circumstances are irrelevant, only the law is relevant

The_Deep

You are according this firm of knuckle dragging ex clampers too much respect. They are con men, they have been taken to Court by Trading standards and a Winchester barrister whom they chose to annoy.

In car terms think of them as clapped out Ladas

Primeau

One comment I would make is that it wasn't your fault. These companies rely on people falling foul of their convoluted rules so they can rake in the cash. This isn't about parking control; it's about milking the motorist.
Don't feel bad, get mad!
good luck,
Primeau

Guys_Dad

This was from the old post that Redx referred to in post #5

You are making the newbies' common mistake which is "I done wrong, guv, so they are right to charge me. How can I defend that??".

Our point is " regardless of the facts, PPCs are penalising motorists to a ludicrous extent to which they are not entitled and we concentrate on helping people based on that point"

Suppose you had been caught doing 35 mph in a 30 mph limit. You get to the Magistrates court and they say "Guilty. Lock him up for 2 years".

You would get a brief to appeal the sentence, not the verdict.

So that's the case here. You are appealing the "sentence" of £100 that does not fit the "crime",

So, you major on the "No genuine pre-estimate of loss" point.

Also, suppose the PPC didn't have the right to charge you 1p as they didn't have a valid contract with the landowner? So you demand that they produce the contract in question that actually specifies that they are allowed to charge you.

Going back to the "crime" of speeding. Suppose that there were no 30mph signs up and it wasn't obvious that you were in built up area. Would that be fair? So you challenge the signage of the park in question. Obviously the signage was inadequate or you would have seen it.

Basically, that's it in a nutshell.

BlueWolf62126

Yes, I suppose I am of that mindset - which I know I shouldn't be.

I will definitely go down the no GPEOL route after waiting for the NTK to arrive in 28 days or so. Out of interest, I suppose the average success rate for getting charges dropped by the PPC due to no GPEOL is quite low, and therefore will most likely require POPLA anyway?

I am very motivated to fight this extortionate charge, not least because of discovering numerous examples of despicable UKPC tactics online over the last day. The worrying thing is that they're obviously not the only ones trying to screw with people.