Appeal rejected VCS Ltd

looking2save

Hi all,
I received a PCN back in Oct. The company is VCS who are members of the IPC. I emailed a reply as per the template and today received a return letter.

Acknowledged my appeal and still state that I was over 2 hours in the car park. I am the registered keeper and I have an additional driver insured. I was in the USA on the date mentioned. The additional driver was not in the County or within 3 hours of the location named by the letter!!

It says i can appeal to the IAS, but my understanding from the forum is that this is not a proper independent company.

How should I proceed?

Many thanks to those that graft to prevent people from becoming their victims!

Fruitcake

looking2save wrote: »

Hi all,
I received a PCN back in Oct. The company is VCS who are members of the IPC. I emailed a reply as per the template and today received a return letter.

Acknowledged my appeal and still state that I was over 2 hours in the car park. I am the registered keeper and I have an additional driver insured. I was in the USA on the date mentioned. The additional driver was not in the County or within 3 hours of the location named by the letter!!

It says i can appeal to the IAS, but my understanding from the forum is that this is not a proper independent company.

How should I proceed?

Many thanks to those that graft to prevent people from becoming their victims!

You are right about the IAS appeals process; it is considered to be a kangaroo court.

You can either appeal then ignore everything thereafter unless you win or get real court papers, or

Ignore everything unless you get real court papers.

Someone over on pepipoo has done an IAS/IPC appeal template so it might worth having a look over there. Unfortunately I can't find the link someone posted here yesterday.

If you can prove your car was not in the car park then an appeal might be worth doing. It is possible the PPC misread your VRN so you have got someone else's ticket. Were you sent any pictures as this would prove if it was your car or not?

looking2save

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yes, pictures did accompany the original PCN, however, it is my belief that the second letter I received is in error and they actually mean to highlight my car in a local car park!! Should I show my hand now and give them chance to regain or hold it as a trump card!?

Again any help is appreciated.

Fruitcake

looking2save wrote: »

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yes, pictures did accompany the original PCN, however, it is my belief that the second letter I received is in error and they actually mean to highlight my car in a local car park!! Should I show my hand now and give them chance to regain or hold it as a trump card!?

Again any help is appreciated.

I'm a bit confused about this. Without revealing too much detail, please explain about the photo and the local car park. Is it definitely your car in the photo'? Are you saying the two communications refer to different places?

I wouldn't tell the PPC they have made a mistake but would mention in an IAS appeal, if I was going to appeal that is.

looking2save

The photo on the PCN is of my vehicle.

However, the address of the car park mentioned in my "appeal denied" letter is in a totally different county!

If I say I was not 100% at the address in the appeal denied letter, which is true, am I giving them the chance to realise their mistake or would i be better holding back in case of court case?

Many thanks.

Fruitcake

looking2save wrote: »

The photo on the PCN is of my vehicle.

However, the address of the car park mentioned in my "appeal denied" letter is in a totally different county!

If I say I was not 100% at the address in the appeal denied letter, which is true, am I giving them the chance to realise their mistake or would i be better holding back in case of court case?

Many thanks.

OK, got it now. So they actually haven't rejected your appeal against your car in the original PCN, they have rejected an appeal you didn't make about your car being in a different car park. :rotfl:

With IPC/IAS appeals you are guilty until proven innocent so if you said you weren't at the location in their rejection letter they would say, prove it. The only way you could do that might be if you told them where your car actually was.

Oh no, definitely don't tell them.

Either save it for an IAS appeal or ignore everything from now on unless/until you get real court papers. The latter is what I would do but I can't make a recommendation for you. Technically they haven't rejected your appeal so technically you can't appeal to IAS ... I think.

I'm at work and about to head off for a work break. Hopefully one of the experts will be along in a bit to give you better advice.

looking2save

What do we think experts?

Ignore or draft an appeal to IAS?

Many thanks.

hoohoo

The appeal denied letter will not count for anything so it does not matter they waffle on about the wrong car park.

So far the IAS have always cancelled based on GPEOL, so I would appeal based on this reason. I would also check the NTK to see if it is POFA compliant, seeing as you are not the driver. I would also check the signage at the site - seeing as some sites have Excel signage rather than VCS.

Coupon-mad

looking2save wrote: »

What do we think experts?

draft an appeal to IAS?
Many thanks.

100% yes if you have a way of proving this bit:

I am the registered keeper and I have an additional driver insured. I was in the USA on the date mentioned.

Please check the NTK from VCS, does it say they will pursue the keeper 'on the assumption they were the driver'?

If so, you could (WILL WIN, IMHO!) at IAS if you have proof that you were not in the Country, attached as evidence, plus a scan of both sides of the NTK which shows they have not used a POFA compliant version so cannot pursue you as keeper nor driver.

Do not hit submit on your IAS [STRIKE]POPLA[/STRIKE] appeal until you have also attached the evidence. You could also mention the mistake in the rejection letter address of location but it won't win the appeal and nor will GPEOL IMHO, not any more, not after brutal_deluxe's thread. But you have the winning point re the evidence you were not in the UK, plus the NTK scan to show the IAS that VCS didn't use a POFA 2012 'keeper liability' NTK.

Redx

she means IAS appeal, not popla, so just assume its the IAS for the IPC appeal, only submit when all evidence is attached as you cannot send it later, like you can with popla

looking2save

Below is my appeal, I attached proof I was in America, signage and my initial PCN.

I am appealing because:

1. I was not the driver.

2. I will not be naming the driver because the POFA 2012 positively enshrines the right of the keeper not to obliged to name the driver. The DVLA has stopped the IPC from their initial practice of insisting the appellant tick a box to say who was driving, so clearly the IAS cannot impose such an unsupported assumption on the keeper. Indeed it was the will of the parliament during the reading of the POFA bill that the keeper could not be obliged to name the driver, as is confirmed in this impact assessment re the POF bill:

Link was inserted here

Parliaments view was that to force a registered keeper to name the driver:

\"would be a disproportionate sanction to a parking charge on private property, which is essentially a civil dispute between two private parties\"

therefore this operator cannot hold the keeper liable at all, since they have not bothered to send a Notice to Keeper (NTK) which contains the necessary wording from paragraph 9 of schedule 4. Indeed the NTK states it is only aimed at the driver (VCS\' choice then, not to be able to pursue the keeper with this document when that keeper was not the driver, as in this case). The keeper cannot be liable and the IAS cannot step beyond the will of parliament, the department of transport and the DVLA by making unsafe assumptions, particularly in the case where the keeper has categorically stated as truth that they were NOT the driver.

3. I was not in the country! I was in America. I was in Lake Elsinore, California. I was parachuting there. Attached is a scan of my log book, showing me jumping that day at Elsinore Jump site!!

4. Signage - Considering my address in comparison to Berkeley Centre, Sheffield it has cost me considerable expense to also photograph as evidence the signs at the car park to reinforce my appeal. I request the IPC to check the PCM\'s maps/photos and check against the IPC code of practice requirements. They should then act to get said signs altered to abide with the requirements.