Find out if it's freehold for free

DocQuincy

I have a terraced Victorian house and a mortgage with HSBC. I happened to search for it on the Land Registry database and there are two entries: one for freehold, another for leasehold under the exact same address with the same date on it.

I searched through the folder of documents I got when I bought the house and from what I can gather (I'm no expert) the land was leased just before the turn of the last century (when the house was built) from a local estate for 999 years, making it due to run out in 2898.

There is a copy of a form (TR1) that seems to suggest the land was transferred from the estate to the previous owners for £500. Could this be why there are two entries? It's weird that they both have the date on them (the date we bought the house).

I'm 99% sure we have a freehold but is there a free or cheap way I can know for sure? I have a copy of the Land Registry documents that the solicitor gave us with our name on it and that says Freehold above the Title Absolute section.

I'd like to know for sure though, how can I find out? Is it worth asking HSBC? If a house wasn't a freehold wouldn't you be informed during the time you do searches, etc?

Many thanks.

Land_Registry

DocQuincy wrote: »

I have a terraced Victorian house and a mortgage with HSBC. I happened to search for it on the Land Registry database and there are two entries: one for freehold, another for leasehold under the exact same address with the same date on it. the search result will reveal what tenures are registered for that address so as you state there is a freehold and a leasehold. Not too sure re the 'date' though as the search result does not refer to a date and from the rest of your post it seems you have not viewed/downloaded either register. But you may be referring to the TR1 mentioned later?

I searched through the folder of documents I got when I bought the house and from what I can gather (I'm no expert) the land was leased just before the turn of the last century (when the house was built) from a local estate for 999 years, making it due to run out in 2898.

There is a copy of a form (TR1) that seems to suggest the land was transferred from the estate to the previous owners for £500. Could this be why there are two entries? It's weird that they both have the date on them (the date we bought the house).A TR1 is used to transfer registered titles and if for £500 then this one probably relates to the freehold title only as the 'value' would be in the 999 year leasehold title.

I'm 99% sure we have a freehold but is there a free or cheap way I can know for sure? if none of the paperwork you have explains the situation then checking the registered titles is probably the only way forward. The freehold register for example should refer to the lease as wellI have a copy of the Land Registry documents that the solicitor gave us with our name on it and that says Freehold above the Title Absolute section.I suspect you acquired both the freehold and leasehold titles but no request to merge the two was made at the time

I'd like to know for sure though, how can I find out? Is it worth asking HSBC? If a house wasn't a freehold wouldn't you be informed during the time you do searches, etc?the conveyancing process would have revealed both tenures but the fact that there are two and both were transferred (we believe) to you then there is no real issue here. It just means you have to account for both when you come to sell

Many thanks.

In the circumstances I would read the Freehold register you have again and check the C Charges Register for mention of the lease.

The easiest way to be 100% sure that you are also the registered owner of the leasehold title as well is to check (£3) unless you have a copy of that register as well or a TR1 which refers to the leasehold title separately or one which refers to both.

DocQuincy

Thanks a million for your reply. I can't believe it's direct from Land Registry too, kudos.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm really ignorant with this sort of thing. Do you mind explaining why a house would have both types of tenure running side-by-side? I thought a property would be one or the other.

I believe I have all the paperwork I need I just don't understand the jargon. :S

By the way, I was wrong, it's a TP1, not a TR1.

It shows Land Registry documents that seemed to refer to the property being a leasehold until after the date of the TP1. Since then there are Land Registry docs in the previous owners' names (who did the TP1) and our names that say Freehold, not Leasehold.

On the TP1 under Property Transferred is says:

ALL THAT freehold plot of land with the dwelling house erected on part thereof and known as MY ADDRESS HERE.

Attached is a map with a marking showing our house and garden.

In the circumstances I would read the Freehold register you have again and check the C Charges Register for mention of the lease.

What should I look for? It mentions a transfer of the land and that it contains restrictive covenants (which are just about only using it for domestic purposes and keeping it in good repair).

Thanks again.

DocQuincy

P.S. On the Land Registry Official copy of register of title the solicitor sent us is says under part A:

The Freehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the above Title filed at the Registry and being OUR ADDRESS.

Like I say prior to the TP1 the above said Leasehold and not Freehold.

Land_Registry

In very basic terms you start with all land/property being freehold and out of those leases are then granted There are a wide variety of instances where a lease can then be determined (come to an end) but all the time a lease is still running you would have both a freehold and a leasehold tenure.

IF the two tenures ever come into the same ownership then they can be 'merged' and in effect the lease is surrendered and comes to an end. However that will invariably happen if it is applied for. So there will be people out there who have both a freehold and leasehold tenure/title and they own both.

In some cases that may be because they wanted to hang onto both as they might want to sell the lease but keep the freehold. In other cases they never applied for merger, probably because they were unaware they had to.

So in essence you can have both the freehold and leasehold registered and both are in the same ownership.

From the additional information now provided it sounds as if the freehold was acquired at some stage and that is what you own.
However I am a little uncertain as to why your online search revealed both tenures if the freehold register does not refer to the lease as mentioned previously.

The difficulty with researching the old deeds and documents is that they can cloud such matters a little and it is therefore always important to look at the current registered details for clarity around what you own

DocQuincy

Thanks very much, I have sent you an email with my name and full address on.

amnblog

£3 saved - result

Land_Registry

Thank you - I can confirm that there is indeed both a freehold tenure and a leasehold one and both are in the same (your) ownership.

This is not that unusual in some areas of the country and poses no real issues for owners other than when they buy/sell/mortgage they have to account for both in any dealings with buyers/lenders.

Land_Registry

amnblog wrote: »

£3 saved - result

The question of whether it is freehold or not is already established for free by doing the online search against the address.

The £3 fee is only levied as and when you actually view/download the details

DocQuincy

This is great, thanks. I'm still confused as to what the leasehold actually is/is for. I just want to know I 100% own the house and land indefinitely so I can relax. Like I say, this is not exactly my field of expertise.