sorry, more probate help

g6jns_2

getmore4less wrote: »

Most banks will go over £20k without a grant.

Really? What verifyable evidence do you have for such a sweeping assertion?

BobQ

getmore4less wrote: »

Most banks will go over £20k without a grant.

Name them!

A little pedantic! I was just trying to illustrate that it is the bank that decides if it needs Probate. They vary as to their rules.

getmore4less

£30k Barclays
£25k Santander
£30k Nationwide
£20k HSBC
£20k Halifax
...

All members of each group are likely to be the same
£15k is als quite common for institutions that over banking/savings.

If you had ever closed accounts with an institution as part of the admin process most cover this on the account close forms.

g6jns_2

getmore4less wrote: »

£30k Barclays
£25k Santander
£30k Nationwide
£20k HSBC
£20k Halifax
...

All members of each group are likely to be the same
£15k is als quite common for institutions that over banking/savings.

If you had ever closed accounts with an institution as part of the admin process most cover this on the account close forms.

Where is this information from? Just glibly saying this does not make it a fact. From personal experience I know that neither HSBC or Nationwide do this as a matter of course. In law no financial institution should hand over funds from a deceased customer's account without proper authority. In most cases this means sight of the probate grant. As an exception many, but not all, banks will pay money direct to a funeral director for the cost of the funeral. Having said that they can be difficulty if the estate proves to be insolvent.

getmore4less

The infor is taken from the relevant banks web sites or account closure forms they provide.

Eg.
https://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/HelpCentre/pdf/HelpandUnderstanding.pdf
If the deceased was the sole account holder and
there is a total of less than £20,000 in each of the
following Halifax and Bank of Scotland account
types, we will ask the executor or beneficiary
entitled to the estate, to complete a statutory
declaration form.

Natwest have hit the news on this issue.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/jessicainvestigates/10449501/NatWests-actions-compounded-our-grief-at-fathers-death.html

Here is another list by someone else(some limits have gone up since 2010)

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?21653-Banks-requirements-and-info

lets throw in another place.
http://www.britannia.co.uk/_site/corporate/contact-us/bereavement/bereavement-sav.html


if planning to get a grant often sensible to wait as some require that in those circumstances

G6JNS

I checked the references you gave and they really don't support your hypothesis. To be specific. You originally rather glibly stated that "most banks will go over £20,000 without a grant". When challenged you further stated figures for five banks. When further challenged you gave several links. Let's look at each one in turn.

BOS/Halifax. Their document is detailed and helpful on the subject of dealing with things when someone dies. However the detail suggests that they will want to see the documentation including the grant. They will pay the undertaker directly and also cover the situation where IHT has to be paid before a grant can be made. Those are special circumstances different from just getting an account balance paid to the executor

The Telegraph article is not really an authoritative reference as it does not show all the facts.

The Legal Beagles site is just that. The information is all second hand and therefore hardly
authoritative.

The Britannia BS no longer exists and was not a bank anyway.

The reality is that banks have no legal right, or obligation, to hand over funds without proper authority. They will want an indemnity or to be shown the will or probate. In many cases it is administratively simpler to get a grant as this then makes it easier getting various things sorted out even when it may not be strictly necessary.

[FONT=&quot]Unfortunately doing a few Google searches does not make you an expert on any subject. There needs to be experience and an understanding of the basic law underpinning the system.[/FONT]

Crabapple

Going back to the OP here - your husband as co-Executor needs to speak to the Solicitor.

Say that you have discovered that the house is held as tenants-in-common, and also that there is a piece of land in a sole name.

Then ask two questions:-

1. as he is an Executor could he please have a copy of the Will

2. could the Solicitor provide a quote for obtaining the Grant and/or administering the Estate so he can discuss with his co-Exec the best way forward.

They will need a Grant for the house and land and irrespective of the points raised above about how much money might be released by banks without a Grant, the small estates indemnity form that is otherwise required gets you to state that you do not need to obtain a Grant to the Estate.

So if you need one anyway you really shouldn't go to the banks without it (except for funeral costs and IHT for which there are different procedures).

BobQ

getmore4less wrote: »

£30k Barclays
£25k Santander
£30k Nationwide
£20k HSBC
£20k Halifax
...

All members of each group are likely to be the same
£15k is als quite common for institutions that over banking/savings.

If you had ever closed accounts with an institution as part of the admin process most cover this on the account close forms.

This surprises me but appears to be correct for simple cases for Santander and Nationwide so I assume the rest are.

BobQ

g6jns wrote: »

Where is this information from? Just glibly saying this does not make it a fact. From personal experience I know that neither HSBC or Nationwide do this as a matter of course. In law no financial institution should hand over funds from a deceased customer's account without proper authority. In most cases this means sight of the probate grant. As an exception many, but not all, banks will pay money direct to a funeral director for the cost of the funeral. Having said that they can be difficulty if the estate proves to be insolvent.

I think you will find that they do. It does surprise me how much they will now repay though.

I suspect that this is just risk management from their point of view. As the recipient is signing an indemnity to repay the money if they are making a false claim, the bank would just pay out money again to a legitimate executor and sue the person who had claimed the money and attested that there is no Grant of Probate.

Nationwide require you to swear an oath over £5K.
.
http://www.nationwide.co.uk/~/media/MainSite/documents/guides/dealing-with-the-unexpected/bereavement-request-to-close-account.pdf

getmore4less

BobQ wrote: »

This surprises me but appears to be correct for simple cases for Santander and Nationwide so I assume the rest are.

I picked main examples that cover the main brands in the UK(some were groups). having the need to deal with some of these I know the limits.

I suspect most are at or over this and £15k will not be uncommon for others

50% of UK banks over £20k who really knows my assertion is probably better than alternative views. replace most with many if you like.

What surprised me was Halifax/BOS was on a per account basis a lot are totals across all account which for somewhere like Santander that absorbed loads of others can be quite a few as Abbey and Alliance and Leicester were popular.


For the record Britannia is now a trading name under the co-op banking licence.

Point people at the info, they can make their own minds up and talk to their lender or use the forms if they find them on-line, many have bereavement departments these days although not all are easy to deal with.