giving a person up

devizes18193

Hi
I'm courious we are the main care'ers of a 19 year old lad . He is our son and love him to ribbions .
However we are knocking on a bit and there will come a time when he will have to go into full time care as opposed to the day care we have now , he also lacks mental capacity .
What happens then .
At the moment we have a say in his care and heath needs and are good advocates for him .
I am thinking that would change as to all intents its like a change of ownership if you will
Historically the proffesionals have made a pigs ear of things to date and before we go down that road in the future a bit of information checking would be useful
ta

rogerblack

For the period when you are around, you can have power of attorney over his treatment - this would basically put you in control - as if you were him deciding things - even though you are no longer providing 24*7 care.

If you can find a suitable person you trust - they could be assigned as also able to cover the POA.
For the longer term - you'd have to look at the various charities in this sector - if you're not happy with the government.
Some charities offer this as a (paid for) service - so some arrangements would need to be made for that.

cattermole

How does that work then roger?

If he lacks capacity to make a power of attorney?!

cattermole

OP I don't think you have a choice but to involve Social Services at some point in planning for his future care. If he has a moderate to severe learning disability then the best way forward would be to look at "supported living".

There is lots of information on the mencap site and livingautism.

Whilst they are charities and provide support living the care is funded by the Local authority.

Independent advocates can also be used for the future again a lot of charities offer this service.

rogerblack

cattermole wrote: »

How does that work then roger?

If he lacks capacity to make a power of attorney?!

I'm assuming they already do.

https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy - for those currently facing this if no paperwork has been done.
This is _considerably_ more expensive than the process when there is no question at the time it's done that the person has capacity to decide.

cattermole

It is very unusual in my experience for parents in these circumstances having the need to go to the Court of Protection to be appointed a deputy as it is primarily to do with money. It normally only happens in cases of large legal case payouts from medical negligence or accidents when the Court of Protection is automatically involved. I've known a large number of parent's in this situation over a period of 25 years and have never known it to be really necessary or desirable.

Because there is no need, they are made benefit appointees and their point of view should be considered in any Care & Support plan anyway. However it is important to note that sometimes, not all parent's want to let go and that can be a barrier to someone getting an independent life.

Which means that in the long run when they are no longer around it becomes a crisis placement rather than a planned and carefully thought out one.

If someone is born with a disability that limits their capacity or they are incapacitated before age 18 they cannot make a POA, so not sure why you assumed it or suggested they should get one when they can't if he lacks capacity to make one.

However it is a common misconception that people have about those born with a mental incapacity regarding POA's etc.

You can have appointee bank accounts jointly with the person eligible for benefits named on the account these days and it says it's an appointee account.

Original poster does your son have a Care & Support plan already with Social Services?

The other thing which is worth considering is setting up a Discretionary Trust Fund for him with appointed "Trustees" Mencap again can offer help on this and possibly naming another younger member of the family like a sibling if there is one as one of the Trustees? It is also worth considering taking advice on this for inheritance as well otherwise the Local Authority will take it all in care charges.

rogerblack

cattermole wrote: »

Because there is no need, they are made benefit appointees and their point of view should be considered in any Care & Support plan anyway. However it is important to note that sometimes, not all parent's want to let go and that can be a barrier to someone getting an independent life.
...
If someone is born with a disability that limits their capacity or they are incapacitated before age 18 they cannot make a POA, so not sure why you assumed it or suggested they should get one when they can't if he lacks capacity to make one.

'Should be part'.
Should is very different from legally must.

There have been in the past ways to get legal control over all someones affairs when they do not, and may never have had legal capacity to do so.
My memory is that this has been in the past a form of power of attorney.
Today, that form of words is not used, and the above term 'deputy' is used.

This is the only way that they can have any legal influence over his care - in ways that cannot be ignored.

cattermole

Sorry that is partly incorrect Roger.

You can only legally obtain power over someone's personal welfare by a Lasting Power of Attorney for Care which they have to make.

Enduring power of attorney's never gave power over care only finances.

Being a Deputy yes it gives similar powers, it does not stop what an authority might or might not offer in terms of care anymore than someone without one would have any control over that. And yes Local Authorities can be deputies and they can be "Guardians" under the Mental Health Act as can relatives if that is what you were thinking of?

It would also not be much use when the parent's are no longer around.

Anyway a POA care or financial as per your original answer was not applicable because you can't make one without Capacity in the first place.

I think you will find in the new Care Act relatives/carers will have more must "influence".