Sufficient funds for payment

bolzano

Does this clause in the First Direct t&cs mean I can set up my standing order to the current account for the same day the regular saver payment is taken?

I.e. not worry about the order of the 300 getting there and being moved to the regular saver - even though I have zero other balance?

"... we will still make a payment that is due to be made on a working day (and won’t recall a Direct Debit
payment we have already made that day) if, before 3.30pm on the day the payment is due to be made:
- you pay in sufficient cleared funds and
- there is still a sufficient available balance to enable the payment to be made up to 3.30pm that day. "


On a similar theme:
When Halifax state you must remain in credit for the £5, is that just the end day balance? Or, if the order of transactions takes you momentarily negative, is that the £5 scuppered?

polymaff

That clause shouldn't affect any decision with regards to the timing of Standing Orders. It is a concession to those relying on their memory and/or some sort of reminder system to make the payment on time.

I've had temporary, day-time, negative balances with a Halifax Reward account and it hasn't affected the £5 reward. Whilst that was quite recently, there's nothing to stop them changing the T&Cs, though.

bolzano

So would that mean I need to set up the SO to the current account 3 days before the regular saver payment to allow for weekends? That seems a bit lame as it gets no interest at all in the current account.

B_G_B

bolzano wrote: »

So would that mean I need to set up the SO to the current account 3 days before the regular saver payment to allow for weekends? That seems a bit lame as it gets no interest at all in the current account.

If you choose to do that, and assuming that you are feeding maximum (£300) from a 3% account, by my reckoning you will lose ~ 89 pence gross per year. Now I like to think of myself as fairly MSE, but personally I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape over this.

bolzano

Agreed, it's not a big deal. But the general principle could apply to a lot of transactions. As I read it, it seems to imply that you don't need to worry about going temporarily negative as long as you get all the necessary money in there by 3:30pm. But maybe I'm wrong on this?

I get that it's there more as a safety net rather than a thing to use in general.

polymaff

bolzano wrote: »

So would that mean I need to set up the SO to the current account 3 days before the regular saver payment to allow for weekends? That seems a bit lame as it gets no interest at all in the current account.

Standing Orders use the FPS system - which is not a guaranteed same-day service. To be sure, you'd have to investigate the "payment-not-on-working-day" policy of both the sender and receiver bank, too. As has been pointed out, the loss of interest is small.

bolzano wrote: »

Agreed, it's not a big deal. But the general principle could apply to a lot of transactions. As I read it, it seems to imply that you don't need to worry about going temporarily negative as long as you get all the necessary money in there by 3:30pm. But maybe I'm wrong on this?.

That is what the clause means - but the implication of what you've said is that you'd go online with First Direct in order to check the payment status - in which case you might as well make a manual FPS payment on the day - possibly followed by a second one if the first doesn't clear in seconds.

Incidentally, I do things manually - so, minimal interest loss - and once missed the deadline by six(?) days. The First Direct overdraft charge was 57p.

colsten

polymaff wrote: »

Incidentally, I do things manually - so, minimal interest loss - and once missed the deadline by six(?) days. The First Direct overdraft charge was 57p.

Could also 'earn' you much higher charges, and a marker on your credit file if you end up using an unauthorised overdraft, couldn't it?

polymaff

colsten wrote: »

Could also 'earn' you much higher charges, and a marker on your credit file if you end up using an unauthorised overdraft, couldn't it?

True, and it is well worth having an agreed overdraft equal to your FD Regular Savings payment as insurance against same.

bolzano

Thanks all. I've gone for a faster payment one day before, and a £300 overdraft.

Just called about the overdraft now - starting to see where the hype about FD customer service comes from. Very impressed!

polymaff

bolzano wrote: »

Thanks all. I've gone for a faster payment one day before, and a £300 overdraft.

Just called about the overdraft now - starting to see where the hype about FD customer service comes from. Very impressed!

Yes, their staff seem to be both intelligent and informed.

Recently (10/11/14) FD have switched to £5 daily charges rather than percentages for informal overdrafts - so there's even more reason for getting the formal overdraft up to the monthly regular savings outgoings. There is also their text messaging system on "balance below or equal to" as a back-up.