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Friendship problem - advice needed (warning long)
geek_girl
Posts: 19 Forumite
Warning, this is long but I think the background is necessary to explain the problem.
I've known this woman nearly 20 years and we've been good friend for most of that time. She's (lets call her J) American we met when I was at college in the mid nineties. J is 10 years older than me and on the surface is completely different to me. She's religious, married at 18 with two kids currently about to celebrate her 30th wedding anniversary. I am not religious, don't have children, and left a 10 year relationship in 2010.
Over the years, we shared a lot. I went over to visit 2-3 times a year and was just absorbed into the family or she and I went away for a girlie long weekend (which I paid for as she never had much money and I did at the time) and there were occasions on both sides of what happens in vegas moments where I kept things quiet that she didn't want her husband to know and vice versa. Nothing was ever put on ceremony for me and I just hung out. She was very preachy albeit it not from a religious point of view but from a giving me advice all the time view. I guess she was like my older sister. I got on really well with her kids but hated her husband although I never showed it (I still can't get over him saying in front of a large gathering that if she didn't have a ring on his finger, he would have slept with someone else by now and her accepting it).
Whilst I was with my ex, she came over to visit England and hated him (although she didn't really say so at the time) and was a rock to me when I left him. E.g. I invited myself over to her s for the Christmas after I left him as I had no intention of spending it on my own. We managed to keep in touch all the time because I was effectively nocturnal (went to bed 2-3am and got up at midday) due to my exes job and that I worked from home.
Then once I lived on my own, I regulated my sleep patterns to more normal UK hours and we stopped talking quite as much. Gradually I started working on site more and more and it became quite difficult to catch up as much even by messenger etc. I think this is where the problems began. It had always been me that did the phoning as I had international calling plans and she didn't but during about an 18th month period, if I didn't text her or call her or email her, she didn't bother contacting me. I guess I was being a bit childish in saying "well its your turn". After 18 months of sporadic contact I started making the effort to email more often and call but there was definitely an atmosphere.
In this period of time, I met my now husband and we are married. So this year, we took a months holiday touring around the states and specifically made plans to spend July 4th with her family. At no point did she say we weren't welcome. We were supposed to be there for four nights but ended up making our excuses and leaving after two.
On the night of our arrival, things were a little tense but I assumed that was because it had been nearly 4 years since I'd been there and they had never met DH. However whilst chatting her husband says to her have you checked with geek_girl about what you can and can't say? She replied "yes and everything is fair game apart from one thing and that's between her and her DH". Well of course this implied that there were things I'd told here I had specifically told her not to tell DH. Whether that was the case or not, she should not have said that because DH then became convinced I was keeping major secrets from him.
On the next morning, we got up and it was clear there was not enough in for breakfast and we ended up with pancakes made from out of date pancake mix and sharing an egg. I know she's never put on a show for me but this did make me think.
We'd taken over nearly £100 of Cadbury chocolate for her and her family yet when we went out shopping for stuff for the barbeque it was clear that anything we wanted we had to buy ourselves.
Since the last time I went to visit, they had moved house and I no longer knew any of her neighbours. When we went out into the street for the 4th of July BBQ she just deposited me and DH into our chairs and wandered off without introducing us to any of her neighbours or friends and we sat there like two goldfish whilst everyone stared at us and wondered who we were.
After this, there were two final straws. He husband was even more insufferable than before to the point where the ONLY thing he would talk about was his marathon running. Start conversation on anything and within five minutes it was back to his running. The plan for the next day had been for and her to go shopping and leave DH and her H to do man things........except there was no way I could leave DH with him as he'd have said something rude due to sheer boredom. If this was the only issue I would have just told him to suck it up but I actually had some sympathy for him.
Finally, on the last evening we were there, J came up to me and asked me to tell my DH to stop hurting her son (aged 13) as he was bending back his fingers and hurting him. I refuse point blank to believe he did this as I know DH and I've seen him around children (his own and other peoples) and there is no way he would do this. I've also mentioned this to real life friends and they were equally as unbelieving. I merely said "ok" but never mentioned it as DH would have been very upset to think this was being said and frankly, by this point, we had decided to leave early.
WE decided to leave early on the Sunday morning and used the excuse that DH wasn't feeling good and we wanted to hit the road in case it turned into a migraine. AS we were packing, DH was putting the cases in the car and J's family said good bye to me. After we drove away DH commented to me that not once had they waved at him or said goodbye.
Ok, so the problem I have is I spoke to her once after I returned to England and that was ok. Then about a month ago she texted me to see if I was ok and Is aid I'd call her but to be honest I haven't as I have no idea what to say to her.....I think the friendship we had before has changed irrevocably and I don't know how to move it forward.
I hate the atmosphere although I know we can't just go back to where we were. I'm hopeless at confrontation which is probably why I can't call her as I don't want to say something and start arguing. I don't want to lose her as a friend but I honestly can't see a situation in which I'd go back over there since DH won't be welcome and I have limited holidays to spread around.
I just wondered if anyone has any advice on how to deal with this or how to move forward.
I've known this woman nearly 20 years and we've been good friend for most of that time. She's (lets call her J) American we met when I was at college in the mid nineties. J is 10 years older than me and on the surface is completely different to me. She's religious, married at 18 with two kids currently about to celebrate her 30th wedding anniversary. I am not religious, don't have children, and left a 10 year relationship in 2010.
Over the years, we shared a lot. I went over to visit 2-3 times a year and was just absorbed into the family or she and I went away for a girlie long weekend (which I paid for as she never had much money and I did at the time) and there were occasions on both sides of what happens in vegas moments where I kept things quiet that she didn't want her husband to know and vice versa. Nothing was ever put on ceremony for me and I just hung out. She was very preachy albeit it not from a religious point of view but from a giving me advice all the time view. I guess she was like my older sister. I got on really well with her kids but hated her husband although I never showed it (I still can't get over him saying in front of a large gathering that if she didn't have a ring on his finger, he would have slept with someone else by now and her accepting it).
Whilst I was with my ex, she came over to visit England and hated him (although she didn't really say so at the time) and was a rock to me when I left him. E.g. I invited myself over to her s for the Christmas after I left him as I had no intention of spending it on my own. We managed to keep in touch all the time because I was effectively nocturnal (went to bed 2-3am and got up at midday) due to my exes job and that I worked from home.
Then once I lived on my own, I regulated my sleep patterns to more normal UK hours and we stopped talking quite as much. Gradually I started working on site more and more and it became quite difficult to catch up as much even by messenger etc. I think this is where the problems began. It had always been me that did the phoning as I had international calling plans and she didn't but during about an 18th month period, if I didn't text her or call her or email her, she didn't bother contacting me. I guess I was being a bit childish in saying "well its your turn". After 18 months of sporadic contact I started making the effort to email more often and call but there was definitely an atmosphere.
In this period of time, I met my now husband and we are married. So this year, we took a months holiday touring around the states and specifically made plans to spend July 4th with her family. At no point did she say we weren't welcome. We were supposed to be there for four nights but ended up making our excuses and leaving after two.
On the night of our arrival, things were a little tense but I assumed that was because it had been nearly 4 years since I'd been there and they had never met DH. However whilst chatting her husband says to her have you checked with geek_girl about what you can and can't say? She replied "yes and everything is fair game apart from one thing and that's between her and her DH". Well of course this implied that there were things I'd told here I had specifically told her not to tell DH. Whether that was the case or not, she should not have said that because DH then became convinced I was keeping major secrets from him.
On the next morning, we got up and it was clear there was not enough in for breakfast and we ended up with pancakes made from out of date pancake mix and sharing an egg. I know she's never put on a show for me but this did make me think.
We'd taken over nearly £100 of Cadbury chocolate for her and her family yet when we went out shopping for stuff for the barbeque it was clear that anything we wanted we had to buy ourselves.
Since the last time I went to visit, they had moved house and I no longer knew any of her neighbours. When we went out into the street for the 4th of July BBQ she just deposited me and DH into our chairs and wandered off without introducing us to any of her neighbours or friends and we sat there like two goldfish whilst everyone stared at us and wondered who we were.
After this, there were two final straws. He husband was even more insufferable than before to the point where the ONLY thing he would talk about was his marathon running. Start conversation on anything and within five minutes it was back to his running. The plan for the next day had been for and her to go shopping and leave DH and her H to do man things........except there was no way I could leave DH with him as he'd have said something rude due to sheer boredom. If this was the only issue I would have just told him to suck it up but I actually had some sympathy for him.
Finally, on the last evening we were there, J came up to me and asked me to tell my DH to stop hurting her son (aged 13) as he was bending back his fingers and hurting him. I refuse point blank to believe he did this as I know DH and I've seen him around children (his own and other peoples) and there is no way he would do this. I've also mentioned this to real life friends and they were equally as unbelieving. I merely said "ok" but never mentioned it as DH would have been very upset to think this was being said and frankly, by this point, we had decided to leave early.
WE decided to leave early on the Sunday morning and used the excuse that DH wasn't feeling good and we wanted to hit the road in case it turned into a migraine. AS we were packing, DH was putting the cases in the car and J's family said good bye to me. After we drove away DH commented to me that not once had they waved at him or said goodbye.
Ok, so the problem I have is I spoke to her once after I returned to England and that was ok. Then about a month ago she texted me to see if I was ok and Is aid I'd call her but to be honest I haven't as I have no idea what to say to her.....I think the friendship we had before has changed irrevocably and I don't know how to move it forward.
I hate the atmosphere although I know we can't just go back to where we were. I'm hopeless at confrontation which is probably why I can't call her as I don't want to say something and start arguing. I don't want to lose her as a friend but I honestly can't see a situation in which I'd go back over there since DH won't be welcome and I have limited holidays to spread around.
I just wondered if anyone has any advice on how to deal with this or how to move forward.
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Comments
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If you already know things won't go back to the way they were, why threat over it? Just let it go because it is causing you to stress way too much.Warning, this is long but I think the background is necessary to explain the problem.
I've known this woman nearly 20 years and we've been good friend for most of that time. She's (lets call her J) American we met when I was at college in the mid nineties. J is 10 years older than me and on the surface is completely different to me. She's religious, married at 18 with two kids currently about to celebrate her 30th wedding anniversary. I am not religious, don't have children, and left a 10 year relationship in 2010.
Over the years, we shared a lot. I went over to visit 2-3 times a year and was just absorbed into the family or she and I went away for a girlie long weekend (which I paid for as she never had much money and I did at the time) and there were occasions on both sides of what happens in vegas moments where I kept things quiet that she didn't want her husband to know and vice versa. Nothing was ever put on ceremony for me and I just hung out. She was very preachy albeit it not from a religious point of view but from a giving me advice all the time view. I guess she was like my older sister. I got on really well with her kids but hated her husband although I never showed it (I still can't get over him saying in front of a large gathering that if she didn't have a ring on his finger, he would have slept with someone else by now and her accepting it).
Whilst I was with my ex, she came over to visit England and hated him (although she didn't really say so at the time) and was a rock to me when I left him. E.g. I invited myself over to her s for the Christmas after I left him as I had no intention of spending it on my own. We managed to keep in touch all the time because I was effectively nocturnal (went to bed 2-3am and got up at midday) due to my exes job and that I worked from home.
Then once I lived on my own, I regulated my sleep patterns to more normal UK hours and we stopped talking quite as much. Gradually I started working on site more and more and it became quite difficult to catch up as much even by messenger etc. I think this is where the problems began. It had always been me that did the phoning as I had international calling plans and she didn't but during about an 18th month period, if I didn't text her or call her or email her, she didn't bother contacting me. I guess I was being a bit childish in saying "well its your turn". After 18 months of sporadic contact I started making the effort to email more often and call but there was definitely an atmosphere.
In this period of time, I met my now husband and we are married. So this year, we took a months holiday touring around the states and specifically made plans to spend July 4th with her family. At no point did she say we weren't welcome. We were supposed to be there for four nights but ended up making our excuses and leaving after two.
On the night of our arrival, things were a little tense but I assumed that was because it had been nearly 4 years since I'd been there and they had never met DH. However whilst chatting her husband says to her have you checked with geek_girl about what you can and can't say? She replied "yes and everything is fair game apart from one thing and that's between her and her DH". Well of course this implied that there were things I'd told here I had specifically told her not to tell DH. Whether that was the case or not, she should not have said that because DH then became convinced I was keeping major secrets from him.
On the next morning, we got up and it was clear there was not enough in for breakfast and we ended up with pancakes made from out of date pancake mix and sharing an egg. I know she's never put on a show for me but this did make me think.
We'd taken over nearly £100 of Cadbury chocolate for her and her family yet when we went out shopping for stuff for the barbeque it was clear that anything we wanted we had to buy ourselves.
Since the last time I went to visit, they had moved house and I no longer knew any of her neighbours. When we went out into the street for the 4th of July BBQ she just deposited me and DH into our chairs and wandered off without introducing us to any of her neighbours or friends and we sat there like two goldfish whilst everyone stared at us and wondered who we were.
After this, there were two final straws. He husband was even more insufferable than before to the point where the ONLY thing he would talk about was his marathon running. Start conversation on anything and within five minutes it was back to his running. The plan for the next day had been for and her to go shopping and leave DH and her H to do man things........except there was no way I could leave DH with him as he'd have said something rude due to sheer boredom. If this was the only issue I would have just told him to suck it up but I actually had some sympathy for him.
Finally, on the last evening we were there, J came up to me and asked me to tell my DH to stop hurting her son (aged 13) as he was bending back his fingers and hurting him. I refuse point blank to believe he did this as I know DH and I've seen him around children (his own and other peoples) and there is no way he would do this. I've also mentioned this to real life friends and they were equally as unbelieving. I merely said "ok" but never mentioned it as DH would have been very upset to think this was being said and frankly, by this point, we had decided to leave early.
WE decided to leave early on the Sunday morning and used the excuse that DH wasn't feeling good and we wanted to hit the road in case it turned into a migraine. AS we were packing, DH was putting the cases in the car and J's family said good bye to me. After we drove away DH commented to me that not once had they waved at him or said goodbye.
Ok, so the problem I have is I spoke to her once after I returned to England and that was ok. Then about a month ago she texted me to see if I was ok and Is aid I'd call her but to be honest I haven't as I have no idea what to say to her.....I think the friendship we had before has changed irrevocably and I don't know how to move it forward.
I hate the atmosphere although I know we can't just go back to where we were. I'm hopeless at confrontation which is probably why I can't call her as I don't want to say something and start arguing. I don't want to lose her as a friend but I honestly can't see a situation in which I'd go back over there since DH won't be welcome and I have limited holidays to spread around.
I just wondered if anyone has any advice on how to deal with this or how to move forward.0 -
Why would you want to continue a friendship with them anyway? People change, they move on. It's not like you need to see her at awkward social gatherings. Just send her a Christmas card and leave it at that.0
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Did they actually invite you to visit or did you invite yourselves as the way you have phrased it sounds like the latter?
Either way I would just leave it and move on. Clearly you both have other important people in your lives now and perhaps don't need the friendship as it was. Not worth stressing over, just send a chatty card with a note about how you are and ask after her family.0 -
I think this friendship has run its course, it's a shame when it happens but a real friend wouldn't have done those things or left you feeling the way you do.
I have "friend" who I barely keep in contact with anymore, we used to be so close. Strangely when she needed me she was there but as soon as she didn't need me anymore she practically disappeared out of my life after more than 15 years of friendship. The final straw for me was when I needed my friend for some emotional support and she wasn't interested and made every excuse possible to not be there for me.
I don't know if maybe one day we will get any sort of relationship back but I doubt it after the way she has behaved.0 -
It's really easy to read this from an outsider point of view and say "move on", because frankly in your last visit, considering you made all that effort, I would be REALLY miffed off.
That being said, you have obviously shared some brilliant moments together in your past too, and it's not that easy just to say "ah well we're different people now!" I think you've been gifted the perfect opportunity here. Tell J exactly how you felt after your last visit, and that you didn't appreciate it. If she reacts badly, just move on, it's a real shame but you deserve better.
If she makes an effort and explains, then that's up to you.It's always darkest before the dawn.
"You are sheep amongst wolves, be wise as serpents, yet innocent as doves."0 -
I think its time to say 'THE END' because u really don't have anything in common now. so just cut off communication.0
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I agree with the other posters, why stress about this? Why keep forcing contact if it's just stressing you out? Just leave it and move on, it doesn't sound like either of you will that bothered tbh.
But the point here, is....what everyone really wants to know is.... what happened "in Vegas"????0 -
If you don't want to lose her as a friend then just be friendly.
The friendship does seem very strained. It might be that your friend didn't understand why after all the support she gave you that contact with you become so rare, so she became frosty to you because she felt that you may only need her when things are going badly. She might be trying to keep some distance between you because it hurt her a little bit.
Might also be the case that you just don't do well together when with each other's OHs. There's something telling about the fact you state you hate her OH and she hated your previous partner.
Up to you really; easiest way to tell if there's still a friendship is to call her (or Skype her, or whatever) and see if you actually have anything to talk about. You don't always need to have something prepared to say with a friend, after all. If you find that the conversation is awkward or stifled then you probably have your answer right there.0 -
If you are worried about confrontation- email her. It give you a chance to think carefully what to say.
Along the lines of- thank you for such support when I needed it but my husband is in my life now forever- and if that is something you have a problem with, then we need to take differing paths.
Try not to get into the finger pointing game too much.
Alternatively, just let contact fade away?0 -
So she's been married to an unlike le bore for years and up you rock with a shiny new man and happy.
Maybe she is if not exactly jealous then a tad resentful of how things have worked out ?
I'd keep it to a Christmas card friendship and chatty emails when you have time and see how things go. Friendships do tend to ebb and flow over the years .....this might recover or might not ......so just keep the door open but leave it on the back burner for now.I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole
MSE Florida wedding .....no problem0
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