Ending tenancy Early due to LL Selling

aldredd

Ok, please bare with me on this one!

We signed 12 month AST in March 2014

We're in England, deposit is protected, rents always paid etc

In May, we were informed the owner wished to sell.
After a lengthy process, a buyer has been found, and is due to exchanging in the next few days. She wishes to live in the property once we leave.

We discussed with the buyer the possibility of 'property swapping', as she currently rents herself from the same LA (and is out of her fixed term) - but haven't made any firm agreement to this.

Buyer is keen to get into the property sooner rather than later, and we did say, in principle, we would not have too much issue with mutually ending the contract early - but again, nothing we've formally agreed to.

Buyer came for a further 'viewing' (measuring) where she was then pressing for a date before the middle of Jan where she can complete - as she's arranged a residential mortgage, rather than a letting mortgage, so we basically can't be in the property when that happens.

In the meantime, we've seen another property (same LA) which becomes available early Jan. We're trying to get a viewing of this property, but looks like it could be a 'winner'.

Now, I know we can't be forced to leave before the end our 12 months - and I certainly won't be if we don't have somewhere to go that we're happy with. But I have some questions...

1) What exactly would happen if the buyer signs her residential mortgage, but we refuse to move until March?

2) What formalities should I ask for / follow from the LA to 'free' us from the current 12 month contract, so we are then free to find another property? Acknowledge this would need both parties' approval, but do not see that being an issue - the buyer has already discussed it with the LA, and knows the cost to her of doing so.

I guess where it could get a little complex is that legally the current owner is of course still our LL, and she may not want to agree to this, but pass it as-is to the buyer (which it can't be, because of the mortgage etc)

3) Assuming we get the formal agreement, is there a way of doing it which gives us the freedom to find another property, but protects us until the end of the fixed term if we do not find anything sooner? Or am I being unfair on this? Can I at least 'ask' for this arrangement, or would it always be deemed an unfair arrangement?

Just feels a little bit like the buyer holds all the cards, and holding us to ransom a little. I know that's not quite the truth, as we do have the protection of the 12 month contract, but with her (stupidly, and knowing full well the impact it would have, as she discussed it with us before hand!) singing a residential mortgage, she's now putting the pressure back on us to agree to a date - which I'll be refusing to do so until we have a contract for alternative accommodation.

Anything else I should consider / be aware of?

ps1 (I did talk to the buyer about being compensated for moving early - wasn't interested, which means we also face early exit fees on utilities etc)

ps2 (One of the reasons we're now reluctant to take the property she's in, is that she's adamant we would need to all move on the same day. The properties are very close, but knowing how many van-loads it took to move in, and having the kids to juggle too, it's just not possible for us to do this)

Thanks!

theartfullodger

The property being sold does not end your tenancy nor require you to leave. The new owner becomes your landlord, same terms. If mortgage is wrong sort solicitor should not permit purchase but it's not your problem.

You can only be forced out by landlord (current or new) after valid notice, court action then bailiff .

You do not have to leave at the end of the fixed term.

You are in a very strong negotiating position to demand large amounts of money to leave when they wwant. I'd start asking for £10k+ & put the price up if they argue.


Change locks, keep old ones for when you leave & refuse all future viewings or visits.

Cheers !

mrginge

I think you need to stop letting this buyer and your LL walk all over you. You're the one who holds all the cards in this situation so you need to figure out exactly what it is you want and tell them.
If they can't accommodate your demands they wont be selling the house will they.

aldredd

Thanks theartfulllodger

I'm fairly comfortable with that aspect - and indeed the LA has reminded us of that too.

Because properties are pretty hard to come buy, we're reasonably happy to leave early if a suitable property comes up - and pretty confident the buyer (and the current owner, in most likelihood) would be more than happy to agree to it - I just want to give myself some freedom to move when a property comes up, but not surrender my current rights. If that sounds like I want to have my cake & eat it, I guess you're right - and for the record, have no problems at all honouring our full term - but the owner wants us out, the buyer wants us out, and we just want to get into a home with a little bit of security )

kinger101

aldredd wrote: »

Ok, please bare with me on this one!

We signed 12 month AST in March 2014

We're in England, deposit is protected, rents always paid etc

In May, we were informed the owner wished to sell.
After a lengthy process, a buyer has been found, and is due to exchanging in the next few days. She wishes to live in the property once we leave.

We discussed with the buyer the possibility of 'property swapping', as she currently rents herself from the same LA (and is out of her fixed term) - but haven't made any firm agreement to this.

Buyer is keen to get into the property sooner rather than later, and we did say, in principle, we would not have too much issue with mutually ending the contract early - but again, nothing we've formally agreed to.

Buyer came for a further 'viewing' (measuring) where she was then pressing for a date before the middle of Jan where she can complete - as she's arranged a residential mortgage, rather than a letting mortgage, so we basically can't be in the property when that happens.

In the meantime, we've seen another property (same LA) which becomes available early Jan. We're trying to get a viewing of this property, but looks like it could be a 'winner'.

Now, I know we can't be forced to leave before the end our 12 months - and I certainly won't be if we don't have somewhere to go that we're happy with. But I have some questions...

1) What exactly would happen if the buyer signs her residential mortgage, but we refuse to move until March? I'm not sure your buyer will get a mortgage if the house isn't vacant.

2) What formalities should I ask for / follow from the LA to 'free' us from the current 12 month contract, so we are then free to find another property? Acknowledge this would need both parties' approval, but do not see that being an issue - the buyer has already discussed it with the LA, and knows the cost to her of doing so.

I guess where it could get a little complex is that legally the current owner is of course still our LL, and she may not want to agree to this, but pass it as-is to the buyer (which it can't be, because of the mortgage etc) I'm confused here - if the LL wants to sell to anything other than a cash buyer or other BTLer, they need you out. No bank will release residential mortgage funds on a tenanted property.

3) Assuming we get the formal agreement, is there a way of doing it which gives us the freedom to find another property, but protects us until the end of the fixed term if we do not find anything sooner? Or am I being unfair on this? Can I at least 'ask' for this arrangement, or would it always be deemed an unfair arrangement? You has a 12 month tenancy, and even after this, only the court can evict you. If you don't have anywhere to live, don't move.

Just feels a little bit like the buyer holds all the cards, and holding us to ransom a little. I know that's not quite the truth, as we do have the protection of the 12 month contract, but with her (stupidly, and knowing full well the impact it would have, as she discussed it with us before hand!) singing a residential mortgage, she's now putting the pressure back on us to agree to a date - which I'll be refusing to do so until we have a contract for alternative accommodation. You hold all the cards really, and should negotiate accordingly.

Anything else I should consider / be aware of?

ps1 (I did talk to the buyer about being compensated for moving early - wasn't interested, which means we also face early exit fees on utilities etc) Make sure you are compensated for absolutely everything if you do move early, including moving expenses, referencing fees etc. You might be able to get out of utility exit fees if you agree to open a new account when you move

ps2 (One of the reasons we're now reluctant to take the property she's in, is that she's adamant we would need to all move on the same day. The properties are very close, but knowing how many van-loads it took to move in, and having the kids to juggle too, it's just not possible for us to do this) As you should insist they pay your removal expenses, just make sure this covers a large lorry that will take it all in one load


Thanks!

One more thing, make sure any property you agree to move into to sort out the buyer's/vendor's mess WILL be vacant on the date you are due to move. Otherwise all bets may be off on moving day. Realistically, this might mean only looking at properties which are currently vacant.

At the end of the day, there are two ways to play this. Assist with their request that you move, but demand adequate compensation to cover your expenses (plus a little more for the hassle). Or enjoy the rest of your tenancy. In my opinion, both vendor and purchaser have approached this rather foolishly.

aldredd

Thank you for your valued inputs, kinger101

kinger101 wrote: »

In my opinion, both vendor and purchaser have approached this rather foolishly.

Without a doubt, you're right... the owner didn't even tell us or the LA they'd put it up for sale - first we both knew was when the EA called to make bookings. The buyer was fully aware of the need to choose correctly between residential and tenancy, as she was explaining she would not be able to move in until after 6 months. Given that conversation was 2 months ago, with 5 months left on the contract, we were pretty gob-smacked she went for a residential - without talking to us further.

kinger101 wrote: »

At the end of the day, there are two ways to play this. Assist with their request that you move, but demand adequate compensation to cover your expenses (plus a little more for the hassle). Or enjoy the rest of your tenancy.

You're right - we should be pushier. The only risk is they say no, and then hold us to the 12 months, and then nothing being available at that time - but I guess that's the position we would have been in anyway.

Guest101

aldredd wrote: »

Ok, please bare with me on this one!

We signed 12 month AST in March 2014

We're in England, deposit is protected, rents always paid etc

In May, we were informed the owner wished to sell.
After a lengthy process, a buyer has been found, and is due to exchanging in the next few days. She wishes to live in the property once we leave.

We discussed with the buyer the possibility of 'property swapping', as she currently rents herself from the same LA (and is out of her fixed term) - but haven't made any firm agreement to this.

Buyer is keen to get into the property sooner rather than later, and we did say, in principle, we would not have too much issue with mutually ending the contract early - but again, nothing we've formally agreed to.

Buyer came for a further 'viewing' (measuring) where she was then pressing for a date before the middle of Jan where she can complete - as she's arranged a residential mortgage, rather than a letting mortgage, so we basically can't be in the property when that happens.

In the meantime, we've seen another property (same LA) which becomes available early Jan. We're trying to get a viewing of this property, but looks like it could be a 'winner'.

Now, I know we can't be forced to leave before the end our 12 months - and I certainly won't be if we don't have somewhere to go that we're happy with. But I have some questions...

1) What exactly would happen if the buyer signs her residential mortgage, but we refuse to move until March?

2) What formalities should I ask for / follow from the LA to 'free' us from the current 12 month contract, so we are then free to find another property? Acknowledge this would need both parties' approval, but do not see that being an issue - the buyer has already discussed it with the LA, and knows the cost to her of doing so.

I guess where it could get a little complex is that legally the current owner is of course still our LL, and she may not want to agree to this, but pass it as-is to the buyer (which it can't be, because of the mortgage etc)

3) Assuming we get the formal agreement, is there a way of doing it which gives us the freedom to find another property, but protects us until the end of the fixed term if we do not find anything sooner? Or am I being unfair on this? Can I at least 'ask' for this arrangement, or would it always be deemed an unfair arrangement?

Just feels a little bit like the buyer holds all the cards, and holding us to ransom a little. I know that's not quite the truth, as we do have the protection of the 12 month contract, but with her (stupidly, and knowing full well the impact it would have, as she discussed it with us before hand!) singing a residential mortgage, she's now putting the pressure back on us to agree to a date - which I'll be refusing to do so until we have a contract for alternative accommodation.

Anything else I should consider / be aware of?

ps1 (I did talk to the buyer about being compensated for moving early - wasn't interested, which means we also face early exit fees on utilities etc)

ps2 (One of the reasons we're now reluctant to take the property she's in, is that she's adamant we would need to all move on the same day. The properties are very close, but knowing how many van-loads it took to move in, and having the kids to juggle too, it's just not possible for us to do this)

Thanks!

Seriously, in ur shoes I would be looking at £5,000+, or your not interested. And then just ignore any contact.

G_M

Although the buyer is obviously keen to Exchange and move in, it i the seller, your LL, who
a) has the problem
b) risks the most
c) holds the key to the solution

A) Problem is that contractually, the seller, your landlord, cannot sell the property ('Complete') while you are there, since the contract will stipulate 'vacant possession'.

If he does this, he will be hit with huge legal and compensatory costs

C) The sellers solutions are either:

1) to delay the sale till your tenancy ends in March (and i) hope you leave then, but probably ii) lose his buyer anyway) or

2) persuade you to leave early eg by paying your agency fees &/or moving costs &/or compensation for disruption &/or whatever else you ask for.....

If negotiating in this way, get a written offer from the LL, specifying what the terms are, and perhaps with a deadline (eg 31st Jan?) after which the offer would lapse but allowing the final end date before then to be determined by your finding a new tenancy.

AdrianC

The fact that there's a common letting agency involved in various rented properties is irrelevant. Your tenancy is with your landlord. You have a contract with him that doesn't expire until March.

Even if your landlord had another property, your contract is with him for THAT property. Transferring that contract to another property owned by him would be goodwill on your part.

aldredd

Thank you for all the valuable inputs. Been reading up a little on vacant possession, and certainly sounds like, as G_M stated, the onus is on the seller, not the buyer. They're due to exchange any day now, but wouldn't be surprised if the seller ends up backing out - given the current owner has no legal ability to get us out of the property before March (would a conveyancer / solicitor even allow this to get to exchange?!)

Still can't understand why the owner didn't just take a tenancy mortgage - given we had until March on our contract, it would have only been a couple of months longer before she could have changed it and moved in. Bonkers.

Guest101

aldredd wrote: »

Thank you for all the valuable inputs. Been reading up a little on vacant possession, and certainly sounds like, as G_M stated, the onus is on the seller, not the buyer. They're due to exchange any day now, but wouldn't be surprised if the seller ends up backing out - given the current owner has no legal ability to get us out of the property before March (would a conveyancer / solicitor even allow this to get to exchange?!)

Still can't understand why the owner didn't just take a tenancy mortgage - given we had until March on our contract, it would have only been a couple of months longer before she could have changed it and moved in. Bonkers.

Higher rates and no wish to be a landlord I imagine

But don't blame the buyer, this is completely and totally your landlords fault.