Gas bills: 1.5 million customers overcharged by faulty meters

Cardew

ChumpusRex wrote: »

Just to clarify - it's on pre-payment meters, not credit meters.

There was also no fault - the meters were working perfectly - they had problem was that they had been programmed with the wrong tariff and metering information. Specifically, there is a conversion factor from volume of gas (cubic meters) to energy (kWh), called calorific value. This varies from time to time and region to region. However, on most pre-payment meters, the utilities set this to an artificially high value. (I'm led to believe that this was due to incompetence rather than malice).

The result was that most pre-pay meters would clock up more kWh than were actually used. As gas varies in quality from area to area, the exact amount that the meters over read varied from region to region and date to date.

In most parts of the country, the error is about 2.5% - in other words, for every 100 kWh you used, the meter would clock up 102.5 kWh.
.

The CV for gas supplied in UK varies between 37.5 MJ/m3 to 43.0 MJ/m3 and IIRC the 'normal' representative figure is 40.0 MJ/m3. I found this to explain how BG calculate the CV figure for credit meters:

The calorific value (CV) used to convert each meter unit to kWh is calculated as follows; "Gas supplied to customers’ homes is passed through a testing station where the calorimeter measurements are recorded. There are two stations, located at Elton, near Middlesbrough and Halton in the East Midlands. Either station can be used to take the measurements although one station’s recordings may have a higher Calorific Value than the other.

We have provided an undertaking to the Department of Trade and Industry that the lower calorific value will always be used when calculating gas bills. A British/Scottish Gas representative records the readings given by the calorimeters every Thursday. These readings are then used to determine the value we will use on bills to be produced the following week. This is done by calculating a rolling average, using each of the previous thirteen weeks’ lowest recorded values from the calorimeters" -

I suspect(note suspect!) the pre-pay meters were set using 40.0 MJ/m3. and the overcharging was caused by the CV of the gas supplied having a lower CV than 40.0 MJ/m3.

I also suspect that this might mean in some areas there would have been undercharging where the CV was over 40.0 MJ/m3.

ChumpusRex

Cardew wrote: »

I suspect(note suspect!) the pre-pay meters were set using 40.0 MJ/m3. and the overcharging was caused by the CV of the gas supplied having a lower CV than 40.0 MJ/m3.

I also suspect that this might mean in some areas there would have been undercharging where the CV was over 40.0 MJ/m3.

In my case, BG were charging based on a CV of 40.9 MJ/m3.

According to data from national grid, the gas being supplied at the time had a CV of 39.3 MJ/m3.

Would be interesting to see how this all works out.

Kevmos

Correct it was a % of Landys and Gyrs Prepay meters installed from 2007 affected. They have provided a list of the meters to all suppliers who then identified all affected customers.

OFGEM are on the case so all the suppliers are under pressure to ensure all suppliers get the refunds out ASAP.

From a live customer point-of-view, if you setup an account with your supplier, they will do everything without you having to even contact them. Historic accounts, it may be worth getting touch with your historic suppliers as unlikely they have a current address/contact to reach you.

supermassive

Does the fault show up when you top up?

I was charged £4.75 last night for "debt" despite not owing anything - because it's prepay - and already being in credit by £5, so it only put on part of the gas that I'd paid for...

I don't know if this is related to the fault or just EDF being beyond awful..

Andy_WSM

supermassive wrote: »

Does the fault show up when you top up?

I was charged £4.75 last night for "debt" despite not owing anything - because it's prepay - and already being in credit by £5, so it only put on part of the gas that I'd paid for...

I don't know if this is related to the fault or just EDF being beyond awful..

It's not related, so maybe the latter?

Kevmos

supermassive wrote: »

Does the fault show up when you top up?

I was charged £4.75 last night for "debt" despite not owing anything - because it's prepay - and already being in credit by £5, so it only put on part of the gas that I'd paid for...

I don't know if this is related to the fault or just EDF being beyond awful..

Yes, it's unrelated. Whilst you may have one of the affected meters (checking your meter manufacture) it would have little impact on your £4.75. Check your meter screens 00 to 03 and that will breakdown where your money went.

SwanJon

NelMac wrote: »

I top up in BULK meaning I don't run about with a card as I refuse to believe paypoint don't make money from a transaction fee, (that the energy supplier says they don't !)
They would be out of business pretty fast if they didn't make something from these transactions.

You are right, PayPoint (the network) does make a per transaction charge, but I'm not sure if it is a fixed amount or a % of the transaction (or some combination of the two). I can't see why some of that wouldn't be passed on to the shop itself, but that would be down to them and PayPoint.

NelMac wrote: »

I wonder though, how much I've been ripped off for in the last 10 years ?

If you haven't had your meter changed in the last 10 years, you won't be affected by this issue.

sacsquacco wrote: »

The fault was purely on top up, not gas consumption.

My understanding was that it was an error with updating the CV, so it wouldn't have affected the top up, but worked in the way
ChumpusRex suggests. The meter should receive and update changes to the CV on a regular basis

sacsquacco wrote: »

At 25 p a go, once a week top up at the most is £13 for the year £91 for 7 years. Hardly mega money, so no big xmas payout is due. Still its 8 bottles of whisky so worth having it in your hands not theirs

If you are spending £11 per bottle it is sacrilege to call it whisky!

Kevmos

SwanJon wrote: »

You are right, PayPoint (the network) does make a per transaction charge, but I'm not sure if it is a fixed amount or a % of the transaction (or some combination of the two). I can't see why some of that wouldn't be passed on to the shop itself, but that would be down to them and PayPoint.

It's fixed per transaction but depends on the agreement each supplier/PPMIP has with each of the National Service Providers aka Paypoint, Payzone and Post Office.

SwanJon wrote: »

My understanding was that it was an error with updating the CV, so it wouldn't have affected the top up, but worked in the way ChumpusRex suggests. The meter should receive and update changes to the CV on a regular basis.

Indeed. Effectively the fault was that the CV remained on a default CV rather than be updated appropriate for that region/time.

SwanJon wrote: »

If you are spending £11 per bottle it is sacrilege to call it whisky!

Correct again!

molerat

SwanJon wrote: »

If you are spending £11 per bottle it is sacrilege to call it whisky!

Kevmos wrote: »

Correct again!

Correct, that is way too much to pay for a bottle of single malt !;)

[Deleted User]

SwanJon wrote: »

You are right, PayPoint (the network) does make a per transaction charge, but I'm not sure if it is a fixed amount or a % of the transaction (or some combination of the two). I can't see why some of that wouldn't be passed on to the shop itself, but that would be down to them and PayPoint.


If you haven't had your meter changed in the last 10 years, you won't be affected by this issue.

My understanding was that it was an error with updating the CV, so it wouldn't have affected the top up, but worked in the way
ChumpusRex suggests. The meter should receive and update changes to the CV on a regular basis

If you are spending £11 per bottle it is sacrilege to call it whisky!

Lol, Grants and Whyte and Mackay 70 cl at Sainsburys on offer at £10, a bottle last few weeks, normally £17.. No single malt but passable stuff. No nectar points tho, see my rant about this on supermarket/coupons in which Sainsburys gave me 1000 nectar points for pointing out the flaw