Help!! Do I go to the Ombudsmen??

Fashnuu

** LONG POST..SORRY! **

Hi,

Need some advice please.

Just had a lengthy conversation with Natwest about the fact that my bank balance is showing an available amount. However this is not the case. Please see below message thread:

Your chat is important to us and one of our friendly staff will be with you shortly.

To make full use of our online banking you will need a card-reader, this can be ordered free online. However please remember that we will never ask you for any details from it while you're chatting to us.

Please note if any personal information is given, it will only be used with regards to this specific enquiry and will not be used for any other purpose.

You are currently number 1 in the queue.
Anya: Hello, you are chatting with Anya. What brings you to our website today?
RYAN: Hi, I am having some serious issues with my bank account in terms of what is available to me to spend. At the minute my account is reading - Balance 30.10 and Available 29.10. However this is not the case as there is far less than this in there and because of this delay in reading what is available to me, it is causing me to keep going into an unauthorised overdraft and accumulating bank charges every month. Is there something that can be done about this as I cannot afford to keep paying these charges.
Anya: Good Morning Ryan!
Anya: Let me have a look for you
Anya: Can I take your full name please?
RYAN: Sue, its Ryan Regan
RYAN: Sorry that was meant to say Sure..
Anya: Thank you... Can I have the last 3 numbers of the account in question please?
RYAN: 223
Anya: Okay this is because you have a £1 transaction that is waiting to fully clear and show on your statement to Shell Grimsby
Anya: I haven't heard from you for a while. Are you still there?
RYAN: Would you be able to tell me how much I actually have left in my account then please to avoid over spending
Anya: The amount you have available to spend is £29.10
RYAN: But I dont have £29.10 to spend. This is the issue. I have made a transaction to a petrol station and a visit to Mcdonalds which has brought this amount down from yesterday. If I was to spend on my card now I could easily go over my available balance which would result in an unwanted bank charge.
Anya: How much were these payments?
Anya: Are you still there?
RYAN: I believe these were £20 for petrol and around £5 odd for the fast food. I should be reading available balance of around £4 but without accurate information being shown to be then this is where problems can rise. I think its a bit daft if I have to make a mental note on my spending whilst I'm relying on my Natwest app and internet to show me an incorrect figure.
Anya: I do apologise for any inconvenience caused however these payments do not appear to be on your account as yet, the best way forward would be to pop back tomorrow to look into this as they have not been requested by the companies as yet
RYAN: Well then there is a major flaw in the bank and companies that use card readers. Im relying on the two of you to communicate effectively to show me a balance I have available. With the run up to Chistmas I can see this being an absolute nightmare and makes me wonder why I would bother using a bank. Surely it would be easier and save me money to just be paid in cash?
Anya: Possibly yes, I do apologise for any inconvenience caused again Ryan.
Anya: Would you like to raise this as a complaint?
RYAN: Yes please. As I will be copying and pasting this message for documentation can you please advise me on what bank charges I have been given for this month please?
Anya: £36 will be taken on the 12th December for an unarranged overdraft fee, and one moment please ahilst i transfer you through to our complaints team
Please wait while I transfer the chat to an assistant who will be able to help you further.
You are now connected with an adviser.

Ashish: Thank you for those details. You are chatting with Ashish, please give me a moment to review the information you have provided.
Ashish: Hello Ryan
RYAN: Hi Ashish
Ashish: I am sorry that you have had to make a complaint in relation to the mobile app.
Ashish: I will certainly record and assist your complaint today. Can I kindly ask you to log online for me to review your details.
RYAN: Logged in now
Ashish: Thanks - one moment whilst I review your details.
Ashish: Okay - so I understand that you are expecting appx £25 to debit from the current available funds which is currently showing as £29.10. Can I ask when you made the payments and the approximate time please?
RYAN: Sure, the £20 for the petrol was paid at 13.15hrs yesterday. and the fast food payment was at around 13.25hrs yesterday too.
Ashish: Okay - this seems a little odd as any authorised payment would come off your available funds balance. Can I ask whether the pertrol pump payment was done via a self service?
RYAN: It was a self service yes.
Ashish: Also the mcdonalds payment was that self serve?
RYAN: It was yes. More or less every transaction I do is with my card.
Ashish: Okay I am going to check a few reports and also a few details relating to self serve point of sales.
RYAN: Okay thank you
Ashish: Okay, I have referred to our records and can see that these two self serve payment are considered as An 'offline' transaction which is when a retailer's terminal accepts a transaction without connecting to the banks systems for checks. This means the transaction won't 'pend' (reduce available balance) however the bank will honour the payment when it is presented for clearing in the following days.
Ashish: I can only see that £1 was authoised yesterday at 13.11 at Shell Grimsby.
RYAN: Thank you for the above explanation but surely this is a flaw within the banking system. Having money showing available to me in my account is, regardless of offline transactions, a misrepresentation and unfair truth. I rely on Natwest to give me an accurate figure of my funds available and not have to wait a few days to see what is actually available. This can and has caused substantial amounts of money being taken away from me. In the day and age we live in I shouldnt have to write down sums I have spent otherwise, whats the point of mobile banking and to a lesser extent, banking in general?
Ashish: I can appreciate that this facility which is offered to our customers can offset what would be available to them on later date. However, it is an additional facility which is available to you on the type of Debit Card you have. This Debit Card allows to have credit on your account without the bank having to check your account. This facility is only offered to customers who have a good credit record. I understand your view in terms of what is shown on your mobile app - however as this is an offline payment- the retailer would only process this on a later date which the bank would have no control over. I would suggest not to use it if you are not comfortable with this option on your Debit Card - to avoid going overdrawn.
Ashish: I recommend that in order manage the balance on your account you activate the text alert service. ie. the lower balance threshold.
Ashish: I can certainly assist you with this if you wish. Unfortunately, I am unable to change the process in which offline payments are applied to your account.
Ashish: However, I will record your comments as part of the complaint for our managers to review and assess for the future.
RYAN: Thanks. It seems a useful addition but I dont believe a bank should authorise a customer to be able to spend money they do not have in their account. I'm sorry to have to bug you with this and be 'that' customer that complains but I cannot afford to keep paying bank charges every month because of a flawed banking system. Is there a card account that I could use that would only let me spend what is in my account with no fear of going into an unauthorised overdraft?
RYAN: Also, just on an off point the advisor that I was dealing with before you agreed that I probably shouldn't use a bank and just be paid in cash. Seemed quite unhelpful to be honest.
Ashish: With the Debit Card payments which are done at a terminal - if funds are available the payment would be authorised as a guaranteed payment, this applies to all Debit Cards that we offer - I can certainly provide feedback in relation to the service you were given by the previous advisor. We want to help our customers as best as possible.
RYAN: So there is no way of avoiding accidental entry into an overdraft resulting in charges? Even though I don't have the available funds that I am being shown? This honestly screams at me that this is an unfair system and a way for banks to make money. Thank you for the help Ashish and I apologise for being a pain. I will be copying this whole message thread and contacting the obundsmen in relation to this to see iff we can progress at all with the complaint.
Ashish: I am sorry that you are unhappy with the manner this system works currently. As explained that this is an optional service which is something you may want to consider in not using. The process of having the funds debiting your available funds is set by the retailer, hence it is something we cannot change. I can certainly issue you with your complaint reference if you would like to escalate this matter, However, as there is no bank error I cannot change this decision for your complaint. Are you happy with what I have explained Ryan?
RYAN: I am yes thank you Ashish. If I can get the reference that would be great. Have a nice rest of the day.
Ashish: One moment whilst I get this for you.
Ashish: Okay your reference is 35694514. I am sorry that i cannot help you any further today.
RYAN: No problems. Thank you for the help


Long story short I'm expected to write every transaction down to make sure I don't get another bank charge. I honestly don't think this is right and was wondering if its worth taking it to the financial ombudsmen?

Thank you for the advice in advance!

Ryan

Fashnuu

I understand that 'i'm in charge of my financial outgoings' but when your bank is telling you, you have available funds it is very easy to use the funds.

Not looking for anything derogatory from people, just if anyone thinks this is remotely fair..

Lioness_Twinkletoes

My honest opinion is that you should take some responsibility for your finances. If you are that close to your limit then it makes sense to either leave a £10 buffer in place or keep an eye on your transactions.

I also think it was pretty s hitty of you to ask the advisor if you would be better off using cash (and, yes, as you are unable to manage your finances perhaps you can't be trusted with a bank account) and then make it a point of complaint to another staff member when she agrees with you!

No, I don't think there is any point in taking this to the Ombudsman. The explanation is a reasonable one and both advisors were polite and helpful.

The Halifax online banking do show pending transactions - but I also keep a mental note when I am close to my limit and have never had an overlimit charge.

I think the problem is with you - not Natwest.

meer53

Yes it is.

You really expect your bank to monitor your spending for you so you can avoid incurring charges ?

You need personal banking for this, try Coutts. I hope you have deep pockets. Or try a pen and paper, thats the cheaper option.

I know you're a new poster, but your misunderstanding of how your account works is unbelievable. If you knew your available balance was wrong, why did you even call Natwest ?

Fashnuu

Okay, point taken.

BMN

What would be your objective in taking your complaint to the FOS?

Natwest have given you an explanation for why your available balance doesn't always reflect your spending to help you avoid going overdrawn in the future. And they have also agreed to pass on your comments and feedback. What more can they do?

eskbanker

For info, this thread from yesterday covers the same issue, i.e. offline payments aren't visible to the bank and therefore aren't reflected in the reported available balance. Hence OP's comment that "I dont believe a bank should authorise a customer to be able to spend money they do not have in their account" misses the point in that the bank aren't explicitly authorising it as such (in the sense of a real-time check on available funds).

There are more basic accounts available with control, where no offline transactions are supported and the accounts aren't permitted to go into overdraft, much less convenient of course but more suited to those who need or want that level of control to be exerted by their bank....

grumbler

Generally, merchants have up to 6 months to process the transaction, although usually they do this much faster. So, every transaction can be considered as a cheque that you wrote and that can be collected from your account at any time.

dr_adidas01

Fashnuu wrote: »

** LONG POST..SORRY! **

Hi,

Need some advice please.

Just had a lengthy conversation with Natwest about the fact that my bank balance is showing an available amount. However this is not the case. Please see below message thread:

Your chat is important to us and one of our friendly staff will be with you shortly.

To make full use of our online banking you will need a card-reader, this can be ordered free online. However please remember that we will never ask you for any details from it while you're chatting to us.

Please note if any personal information is given, it will only be used with regards to this specific enquiry and will not be used for any other purpose.

You are currently number 1 in the queue.
Anya: Hello, you are chatting with Anya. What brings you to our website today?
RYAN: Hi, I am having some serious issues with my bank account in terms of what is available to me to spend. At the minute my account is reading - Balance 30.10 and Available 29.10. However this is not the case as there is far less than this in there and because of this delay in reading what is available to me, it is causing me to keep going into an unauthorised overdraft and accumulating bank charges every month. Is there something that can be done about this as I cannot afford to keep paying these charges.
Anya: Good Morning Ryan!
Anya: Let me have a look for you
Anya: Can I take your full name please?
RYAN: Sue, its Ryan Regan
RYAN: Sorry that was meant to say Sure..
Anya: Thank you... Can I have the last 3 numbers of the account in question please?
RYAN: 223
Anya: Okay this is because you have a £1 transaction that is waiting to fully clear and show on your statement to Shell Grimsby
Anya: I haven't heard from you for a while. Are you still there?
RYAN: Would you be able to tell me how much I actually have left in my account then please to avoid over spending
Anya: The amount you have available to spend is £29.10
RYAN: But I dont have £29.10 to spend. This is the issue. I have made a transaction to a petrol station and a visit to Mcdonalds which has brought this amount down from yesterday. If I was to spend on my card now I could easily go over my available balance which would result in an unwanted bank charge.
Anya: How much were these payments?
Anya: Are you still there?
RYAN: I believe these were £20 for petrol and around £5 odd for the fast food. I should be reading available balance of around £4 but without accurate information being shown to be then this is where problems can rise. I think its a bit daft if I have to make a mental note on my spending whilst I'm relying on my Natwest app and internet to show me an incorrect figure.
Anya: I do apologise for any inconvenience caused however these payments do not appear to be on your account as yet, the best way forward would be to pop back tomorrow to look into this as they have not been requested by the companies as yet
RYAN: Well then there is a major flaw in the bank and companies that use card readers. Im relying on the two of you to communicate effectively to show me a balance I have available. With the run up to Chistmas I can see this being an absolute nightmare and makes me wonder why I would bother using a bank. Surely it would be easier and save me money to just be paid in cash?
Anya: Possibly yes, I do apologise for any inconvenience caused again Ryan.
Anya: Would you like to raise this as a complaint?
RYAN: Yes please. As I will be copying and pasting this message for documentation can you please advise me on what bank charges I have been given for this month please?
Anya: £36 will be taken on the 12th December for an unarranged overdraft fee, and one moment please ahilst i transfer you through to our complaints team
Please wait while I transfer the chat to an assistant who will be able to help you further.
You are now connected with an adviser.

Ashish: Thank you for those details. You are chatting with Ashish, please give me a moment to review the information you have provided.
Ashish: Hello Ryan
RYAN: Hi Ashish
Ashish: I am sorry that you have had to make a complaint in relation to the mobile app.
Ashish: I will certainly record and assist your complaint today. Can I kindly ask you to log online for me to review your details.
RYAN: Logged in now
Ashish: Thanks - one moment whilst I review your details.
Ashish: Okay - so I understand that you are expecting appx £25 to debit from the current available funds which is currently showing as £29.10. Can I ask when you made the payments and the approximate time please?
RYAN: Sure, the £20 for the petrol was paid at 13.15hrs yesterday. and the fast food payment was at around 13.25hrs yesterday too.
Ashish: Okay - this seems a little odd as any authorised payment would come off your available funds balance. Can I ask whether the pertrol pump payment was done via a self service?
RYAN: It was a self service yes.
Ashish: Also the mcdonalds payment was that self serve?
RYAN: It was yes. More or less every transaction I do is with my card.
Ashish: Okay I am going to check a few reports and also a few details relating to self serve point of sales.
RYAN: Okay thank you
Ashish: Okay, I have referred to our records and can see that these two self serve payment are considered as An 'offline' transaction which is when a retailer's terminal accepts a transaction without connecting to the banks systems for checks. This means the transaction won't 'pend' (reduce available balance) however the bank will honour the payment when it is presented for clearing in the following days.
Ashish: I can only see that £1 was authoised yesterday at 13.11 at Shell Grimsby.
RYAN: Thank you for the above explanation but surely this is a flaw within the banking system. Having money showing available to me in my account is, regardless of offline transactions, a misrepresentation and unfair truth. I rely on Natwest to give me an accurate figure of my funds available and not have to wait a few days to see what is actually available. This can and has caused substantial amounts of money being taken away from me. In the day and age we live in I shouldnt have to write down sums I have spent otherwise, whats the point of mobile banking and to a lesser extent, banking in general?
Ashish: I can appreciate that this facility which is offered to our customers can offset what would be available to them on later date. However, it is an additional facility which is available to you on the type of Debit Card you have. This Debit Card allows to have credit on your account without the bank having to check your account. This facility is only offered to customers who have a good credit record. I understand your view in terms of what is shown on your mobile app - however as this is an offline payment- the retailer would only process this on a later date which the bank would have no control over. I would suggest not to use it if you are not comfortable with this option on your Debit Card - to avoid going overdrawn.
Ashish: I recommend that in order manage the balance on your account you activate the text alert service. ie. the lower balance threshold.
Ashish: I can certainly assist you with this if you wish. Unfortunately, I am unable to change the process in which offline payments are applied to your account.
Ashish: However, I will record your comments as part of the complaint for our managers to review and assess for the future.
RYAN: Thanks. It seems a useful addition but I dont believe a bank should authorise a customer to be able to spend money they do not have in their account. I'm sorry to have to bug you with this and be 'that' customer that complains but I cannot afford to keep paying bank charges every month because of a flawed banking system. Is there a card account that I could use that would only let me spend what is in my account with no fear of going into an unauthorised overdraft?
RYAN: Also, just on an off point the advisor that I was dealing with before you agreed that I probably shouldn't use a bank and just be paid in cash. Seemed quite unhelpful to be honest.
Ashish: With the Debit Card payments which are done at a terminal - if funds are available the payment would be authorised as a guaranteed payment, this applies to all Debit Cards that we offer - I can certainly provide feedback in relation to the service you were given by the previous advisor. We want to help our customers as best as possible.
RYAN: So there is no way of avoiding accidental entry into an overdraft resulting in charges? Even though I don't have the available funds that I am being shown? This honestly screams at me that this is an unfair system and a way for banks to make money. Thank you for the help Ashish and I apologise for being a pain. I will be copying this whole message thread and contacting the obundsmen in relation to this to see iff we can progress at all with the complaint.
Ashish: I am sorry that you are unhappy with the manner this system works currently. As explained that this is an optional service which is something you may want to consider in not using. The process of having the funds debiting your available funds is set by the retailer, hence it is something we cannot change. I can certainly issue you with your complaint reference if you would like to escalate this matter, However, as there is no bank error I cannot change this decision for your complaint. Are you happy with what I have explained Ryan?
RYAN: I am yes thank you Ashish. If I can get the reference that would be great. Have a nice rest of the day.
Ashish: One moment whilst I get this for you.
Ashish: Okay your reference is 35694514. I am sorry that i cannot help you any further today.
RYAN: No problems. Thank you for the help


Long story short I'm expected to write every transaction down to make sure I don't get another bank charge. I honestly don't think this is right and was wondering if its worth taking it to the financial ombudsmen?

Thank you for the advice in advance!

Ryan

Yes you should write down every transaction you make or keep the receipts for everything you buy and make a note of what you have spent and deduct it from what you have available.

This is what many of us did in the days before internet banking, and many of us still do now.

You have created this problem for yourself and incurred the charges by not keeping track of payments you have made.

You have no reason to go to the ombudsman they would just ignore it anyway as its your own fault.

GingerFurball_2

Go to the Ombudsman, it'll give me a good laugh in a couple of months when they stick it in their 'not upheld' section.

NotRichAtAll

only got yourself to blame in my opinion. when i go to the garage to fill my car, the garage always process the transaction 4 days later, i make a mental note of the transaction and stay within my limit's
like yourself for example you got £30 in the bank you go and buy a manky burger and visit the garage, you ain't got £30 to play with anymore, it's really basic math, and it's down to you to keep track of your spending.