Parking - PCN / IAS appeal rejected - help pls!

Martlet

Hi everyone

Firstly thanks to all the various sources of advice. I could do with your help please.

We received an NTK from Parking Control Management (PCM) for £100 for a 15 minute stay on private land, to whom I appealed, based on templates on this forum.

They rejected our appeal on the basis that the charge was contractual, and therefore not a fine, directing our appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS), from whom we have just heard.

Again our appeal had focused on the lack of contract, the punitive nature of the charge, no breach/damage/trespass.

This too has been rejected, on the basis below. Any advice on how to proceed very gratefully appreciated.

The Appellant raises a number of familiar arguments, which I will deal with in turn.
1 No contract
It’s not clear how the Appellant can speak for the driver, but in any event the fact the driver did not see the signs is not the issue. The issue is whether the signs at the location were sufficient that the driver ought to have seen them. The onus is on the Appellant to prove their claim and they have provided none so I must rely on the Operator\'s evidence. This shows the Appellant\'s vehicle parked directly in front of a sign. I am therefore satisfied there was a contract
2 No breach or trespass
This is not relevant as I am satisfied there was a contract. That contract makes clear that by parking without a permit the driver agrees to pay a charge. Rather than being a claim for damages for breach or trespass it is the price the driver agreed to pay in return for being allowed to park without a permit.
3 Charges are punitive/unfair/unreasonable
Given that it is the price the driver agreed to pay by parking they could have parked elsewhere if they felt the price was unfair. For the same reason the unfair contract terms do not apply. The driver had all of the negotiating power as they did not have to park.
4 The Operator\'s authority from the landowner.
This is arguably irrelevant but the Operator has p rovided a copy of the contract in any event.

Many thanks
Colin

Coupon-mad

Colin - welcome to MSE!

Why did you bother with the IAS stage when the newbies thread and all advice here on all PCM threads for a couple of months. has said 'it's a kangaroo court, don't bother'. I would start by searching the forum for 'PCM IAS' as keywords and read what's already been said to others like you.

Martlet

Thanks C-M, appreciate the post and the welcome!

I did search for IAS - latest advice was that they were allowing appeals when the parking company was claiming a contract was in place, looks like that's discontinued as well now.

I will do another look - presume advice is to ignore?

Coupon-mad

Yep ignore it - but soon you will be sent a Letter before claim from Gladstones (same address and names as those whom 'run' the IPC). Connections discussed here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5117365

You can and should complain to the DVLA, though, as they need to know the trash that's coming out of the IAS (anonymously) from the Solicitor contacts of Mr Hurley at (allegedly) 'another firm of solicitors':

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66180282#Comment_66180282

And did you use the template appeal that's in the Newbies thread, including the 'Notice of Cancellation' and warning of your own costs? The one with wording including something like this (although I have just re-written it):


'' If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.''


If you did send that sort of template then you can remind the PPC where you are at = remind them that you CANCELLED any so-called contract and your costs are now accumulating every time they write.

If you didn't send that sort of template then you can send something along those lines now.

Martlet

Thanks again - will do exactly that. Keep you posted.

bazster

As I have mentioned before, there is some merit in getting an IAS rejection because, in the highly unlikely event of this ever seeing the inside of a courtroom, the PPC would doubtless brag that they won at ADR, whereupon the defendant could wipe the floor with them by pointing out that the adjudication is anonymous and hence completely worthless as evidence - unless they'd care to reveal the identity of the adjudicator, which in itself would be very interesting.

As well as sending a contract cancellation as recommended by C-M, you could send a Subject Access Request to the IPC/IAS in the interests of (i) extracting information that they are currently hiding from you, and (ii) giving them a hard time. It'll cost you a tenner though.

Castle

bazster wrote: »

As I have mentioned before, there is some merit in getting an IAS rejection because, in the highly unlikely event of this ever seeing the inside of a courtroom, the PPC would doubtless brag that they won at ADR, whereupon the defendant could wipe the floor with them by pointing out that the adjudication is anonymous and hence completely worthless as evidence - unless they'd care to reveal the identity of the adjudicator, which in itself would be very interesting.

As well as sending a contract cancellation as recommended by C-M, you could send a Subject Access Request to the IPC/IAS in the interests of (i) extracting information that they are currently hiding from you, and (ii) giving them a hard time. It'll cost you a tenner though.

In addition you could also contact PCM to request a VAT invoice for the parking charge and then a Credit Note for the cancellation.

Martlet

Thanks both - I've requested the VAT invoice and will go down the S-A-R approach if things get messier.

bazster

Castle wrote: »

In addition you could also contact PCM to request a VAT invoice for the parking charge and then a Credit Note for the cancellation.

:rotfl: I like your thinking.

Castle

bazster wrote: »

:rotfl: I like your thinking.

Thanks
Then follow up with a call to the local council to ensure that the Business rates are correctly being calculated and that the appropriate planning permission is in place for a fee charging car park. Given how short of cash our councils claim to be, they may be interested.

bazster

The council will tell you that setting business rates is not their job, it's the job of the Valuation Office Agency. They may or may not be interested in contacting the VOA themselves.