Company Car PCN

Brianthesprout

All,

Many thanks for all the work put in by the small group of people that have given me the confidence to go ahead and fight this.
If I hadn't come across this board I would almost certainly just have paid the charge (not "fine" - I'm learning quickly) as £35 probably doesn't warrant the effort involved to challenge it. Indeed, I have now taken the view that even if I lose it will be worth the expense just to cause these people as much expense and incovenience as possible!

I would like to have done more research before posting this but I am concerned I might be up against a tight timescale…
(I read on one of the newbie posts that if you are a Co. car or lease car driver that you need to act more quickly)

My situation is thus;
I parked my Company car (provided by Lex autolease) in a car park on Sunday 2nd November for 2 1/2 hours
I paid for a ticket at the machine and displayed it in my car, unfortunately I no longer have the ticket. (From reading the threads I know this has little bearing on any outcome but for me it is important as I know I am morally in the right).

On Monday 17th Nov I'm notified by my HR dept that they have received an admin fee of £10 from Lex for processing a "parking ticket". The following day I chased Lex directly for the paperwork and made it clear I wished to challenge the charge.
They had no problem with this and said they would put the fee on hold. They then sent me thru' a PDF copy of the PCN addressed to Lex autolease together with the comments below;

Please see attached a copy of the notice we have received.
We have nominated the below address so the offence should be with the customer within the next 3 weeks as we only processed the charge on 10th November.
The driver can submit an appeal at any time as we have transferred the liability for the charge into the company name.

Please note the address is that of my Company not my own.
Also note this is a single one sided page so I have no idea if it is complete or not. (There is mention that they have "evidence" but no reference as to how I might be able to see it).
The only mention of the issuer is a statement that cheques should be made payable to Civil Enforcement Ltd.
PCN issue date; 7/11/14
Incident date; 02/11/14

I have many questions but I'm sure I will be able to find most answers thru' further reseach. In the meantime I would be grateful if someone could give me direction as to whether I need to act within 28 days from 2/11/14. Specifically:

1) Should I wait for a PCN to be issued in my name before doing anything else?
2) If no, should I appeal as "the driver" as described in the comment above by Lex? (I am very consious of all the advice about not stating who the driver was!)
3) I assume if 1) is "yes" the clock will be reset and the 28 days will start from then?
4) The template in the newbie thread states very clearly that you shouldn't identify the driver personally. However, if you are appealing as the driver then remove certain references. As stated I am a Co. car driver but not necessarily the driver on this occasion. Eg any Co. employee is entitled to drive the car as is my wife or anyone else I nominate (in an emergency). So my question is do I still appeal as the driver or withold that info?

Sorry for the long winded note! I didn't intend to write this much but then I'm not completely sure how much detail would be needed.

I started off dreading this process but the more I read on this forum the more I think I might actually enjoy it! (Is that normal?)

Many thx

bod1467

Are Lex saying they've identified your company to CEL as the "driver"?

Do Lex know that you are the "usual keeper" of the vehicle?

The £10 admin charge will likely not be covered by the lease T&Cs, as this was neither a fine nor a penalty nor a statutory charge. Therefore it is unenforceable (just like the PCN).

1) I'm not sure. The answers to the questions above may help with the advice.
2) It depends ...
3) If this was purely a postal PCN (no windscreen ticket, either real or alleged) then naming the driver "resets the clock".
4) As a company car driver, if you normally keep the vehicle then you are the keeper. You might not be the registered keeper, but you are the usual keeper.

Northlakes

Usually if your are within the timescales (which it sounds to be) it's best to remain as the keeper particularly if this incident was at a station, airport or other not relevant land location (or Scotland).

Brianthesprout

Are Lex saying they've identified your company to CEL as the "driver"?

Not sure to be honest. I'll contact Lex to see exactly what they've done

Do Lex know that you are the "usual keeper" of the vehicle?

Yes

The £10 admin charge will likely not be covered by the lease T&Cs, as this was neither a fine nor a penalty nor a statutory charge. Therefore it is unenforceable (just like the PCN).

I think I might have been less than clear here. The £10 is a fee charged by Lex to my Co to process the charge.

I should also have added that the charge was in England and there was no windscreen ticket.
Apologies, I don't know how to use the multi quote function - I'll look it up tonight

bod1467

Brianthesprout wrote: »

The £10 is a fee charged by Lex to my Co to process the charge.

In other words, an admin charge.

Brianthesprout

bod1467 wrote: »

In other words, an admin charge.

Yep sorry.

Just had a reply from Lex ...
"Lex have nominated xxxxxxxxxLtd as we are the registered keeper of the vehicle and it is leased to xxxxxxLtd"

I guess this means I won't get a PCN in my name and I proceed to appeal as the driver rather than the keeper?

bod1467

At the moment I guess YOU do nothing as YOU haven't received any PCN? (Your company should pass it to you, and then you appeal using the NEWBIES template and change registered to usual).

Brianthesprout

bod1467 wrote: »

At the moment I guess YOU do nothing as YOU haven't received any PCN? (Your company should pass it to you, and then you appeal using the NEWBIES template and change registered to usual).

OK - will do.
Many thanks for all the advice

The_Slithy_Tove

bod1467 wrote: »

At the moment I guess YOU do nothing as YOU haven't received any PCN? (Your company should pass it to you, and then you appeal using the NEWBIES template and change registered to usual).

Be careful with this approach. It depends on how your company handles it. Some less informed fleet managers will end up paying the charge without giving you an opportunity to appeal, and then slap you with the charge, even threatening to deduct it from your pay (which would be unlawful in most cases).

You may want to pre-empt any idiotic actions by your employer by contacting the fleet manager (or whoever's desk this will land on), and getting them simply to name you as the "keeper" to the PPC, and that they must under no circumstances pay them. You may also need to do battle with them over Lex's admin charge, which again, your employer may be looking to you to pay.

You could head all this off by appealing directly to the PPC, naming yourself as the "keeper" of the vehicle at the time. Always best to keep third parties like lease/hire companies and employers out of it.

Brianthesprout

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

You could head all this off by appealing directly to the PPC, naming yourself as the "keeper" of the vehicle at the time. Always best to keep third parties like lease/hire companies and employers out of it.

To be honest, this sounds preferable to me because at the end of the day it's going to find its way to me anyway.

Should I send a simple letter to the PPC stating that in reference to this specific PCN no. I am the "keeper" of the vehicle? I am assuming they will make some kind of response (perhaps a new PCN?) as a result of which I can then follow the appeals process as described in the Newbie section?

Many thx again for all the comments.

Guys_Dad

Brianthesprout wrote: »

To be honest, this sounds preferable to me because at the end of the day it's going to find its way to me anyway.

Should I send a simple letter to the PPC stating that in reference to this specific PCN no. I am the "keeper" of the vehicle? I am assuming they will make some kind of response (perhaps a new PCN?) as a result of which I can then follow the appeals process as described in the Newbie section?

Many thx again for all the comments.

Yes, with a copy to your fleet manager or whoever pays the bills at your company.