Online purchase from EU, item faulty

rossc1980

Hello


Long time reader first time poster. Hopefully I'll get all the necessary details in this post.


My tale of woe is thus, I bought a motorcycle jacket from a place in Germany over the internet (FCMoto.de) using my credit card. The jacket is an Alpinestars Tech ST jacket which is Gore Tex etc, top of the range basically. The jacket arrived, it fitted so I took the tags off it as I wanted to use it. I went out on the bike, it promptly started raining and I got soaked. The jacket has what are claimed to be water proof zips (Gore Tex motorcycle rain test is very stringent, the jacket design has passed this). There are roughly 8 zips I think on the outside of the jacket for pockets and vents for summer time riding. All the zips had been opened and closed in the exact same manor by me prior to going out in the jacket. Incidentally I have the matching trousers which are also Gore Tex and have water proofs zips also. All the zips on both bits of clothing kept all the water out, in fact I was extremely pleased with it all. However, when I got home the left jacket pocket which had my iPhone 5s in it (you see where I'm going with this) had about 2 inches of water in it, the phone is now dead. I think either the zip or the lining for this pocket are faulty. Most likely the zip as water in the pocket suggests the membrane is fine due to the water being held in here, which ironically has probably worked against me.


The jacket has been used this one time and it cost just over £400, so its over the £100 threshold. as already said the tags have been removed. I received the jacket 6 days ago.


Essentially I want to know exactly what my rights are here. I know about Consumer Contract Regulations, EU Consumer Rights Directive and Brussels regulations. So, I think as they are targeting the UK as a market place (their website is in English, offers delivery here and prices in sterling) that UK law applies.


Unless I have misunderstood, this means as the item is faulty (water proof pockets or membranes shouldn't leak) I am entitled to reject it and get a full refund no questions asked as it isn't fit for purpose. They are saying 4-6 weeks for warranty replacement which is unacceptable to me. I don't think this is warranty as its not like I've used it for 6 months and it developed the fault. The fault was there from the word go. Is my understanding correct?


I've already emailed the retailer saying as much and I'm just waiting on their reply.


As far as the phone goes I am not so sure, it's a work phone so I'm not really out of pocket but it's not the point, rather than having a 6 month old iPhone 5s which was supposed to last me 2 years I will most likely be relegated back to a pre-loved 4s. There are worse things that could happen but still. I would like to seek some sort of redress regarding the phone but not sure where to start with this and who to petition.


Thanks for your time reading this lengthy post. I'm open to any and all thoughts/suggestions.


Ross

LilElvis

rossc1980 wrote: »

Hello


Long time reader first time poster. Hopefully I'll get all the necessary details in this post.


My tale of woe is thus, I bought a motorcycle jacket from a place in Germany over the internet (FCMoto.de) using my credit card. The jacket is an Alpinestars Tech ST jacket which is Gore Tex etc, top of the range basically. The jacket arrived, it fitted so I took the tags off it as I wanted to use it. I went out on the bike, it promptly started raining and I got soaked. The jacket has what are claimed to be water proof zips (Gore Tex motorcycle rain test is very stringent, the jacket design has passed this). There are roughly 8 zips I think on the outside of the jacket for pockets and vents for summer time riding. All the zips had been opened and closed in the exact same manor by me prior to going out in the jacket. Incidentally I have the matching trousers which are also Gore Tex and have water proofs zips also. All the zips on both bits of clothing kept all the water out, in fact I was extremely pleased with it all. However, when I got home the left jacket pocket which had my iPhone 5s in it (you see where I'm going with this) had about 2 inches of water in it, the phone is now dead. I think either the zip or the lining for this pocket are faulty. Most likely the zip as water in the pocket suggests the membrane is fine due to the water being held in here, which ironically has probably worked against me.


The jacket has been used this one time and it cost just over £400, so its over the £100 threshold. as already said the tags have been removed. I received the jacket 6 days ago.


Essentially I want to know exactly what my rights are here. I know about Consumer Contract Regulations, EU Consumer Rights Directive and Brussels regulations. So, I think as they are targeting the UK as a market place (their website is in English, offers delivery here and prices in sterling) that UK law applies.


Unless I have misunderstood, this means as the item is faulty (water proof pockets or membranes shouldn't leak) I am entitled to reject it and get a full refund no questions asked as it isn't fit for purpose. They are saying 4-6 weeks for warranty replacement which is unacceptable to me. I don't think this is warranty as its not like I've used it for 6 months and it developed the fault. The fault was there from the word go. Is my understanding correct?


I've already emailed the retailer saying as much and I'm just waiting on their reply.


As far as the phone goes I am not so sure, it's a work phone so I'm not really out of pocket but it's not the point, rather than having a 6 month old iPhone 5s which was supposed to last me 2 years I will most likely be relegated back to a pre-loved 4s. There are worse things that could happen but still. I would like to seek some sort of redress regarding the phone but not sure where to start with this and who to petition.


Thanks for your time reading this lengthy post. I'm open to any and all thoughts/suggestions.


Ross

No, it's a German company so German laws will apply.

wealdroam

Speak to your credit card issuer.

Section 75 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974 makes the credit supplier equally responsible for performance of the contract.

Might be an idea to read MSE's Section 75 article first.

tykesi

Was the phone in an outer or inner pocket? If it was an outer one are you sure they are supposed to be waterproof? I ask as the outer pockets on my Dainese jacket do not have the Gore Tex lining and are therefore not waterproof, to keep stuff dry I have to put it in an inside pocket within the Gore Tex membrane.

Sure it could be different with the Alpinestars jacket but probably worth checking initially.

Not sure what opening and closing the zips in the same big house has anything to do with it though

agrinnall

I'm not sure about this but I wonder if, as you are still within 14 days from receiving the jacket, you could return it under the CCRs, but without having to pay return postage by using SOGA to say it's faulty? What I don't know is whether the two UK laws have exact equivalents throughout the EU, although I would certainly expect them to be similar.

I don't think you'll be able to make any claim for the phone as it doesn't belong to you. If your employer wishes to pursue a claim that would be up to them, but I'd guess they may not want the hassle.

rossc1980

LilElvis
The Brussels regulation says otherwise because they are targeting the UK as a marketplace.


Tykesi
its a gore tex pro shell jacket. the gore tex membrane is baked in to the outer lining, its the best gore tex offers. all external zips and pockets are 100% waterproof




wont let me post links to the relevant pages

zaax

Have you contacted the company?

http://www.ukecc.net/ will help

rossc1980

agrinnall wrote: »

I'm not sure about this but I wonder if, as you are still within 14 days from receiving the jacket, you could return it under the CCRs, but without having to pay return postage by using SOGA to say it's faulty? What I don't know is whether the two UK laws have exact equivalents throughout the EU, although I would certainly expect them to be similar.

I don't think you'll be able to make any claim for the phone as it doesn't belong to you. If your employer wishes to pursue a claim that would be up to them, but I'd guess they may not want the hassle.

I'm within the 14 days as mentioned earlier so this is how I am attempting to return, the seller is resisting however. that's why I wanted some advice to see if I am within my rights to ask for it.


yep work don't care about the phone. £500 isn't even half what they charge for a visit from me for one day normally, but they wont buy me another phone as that's "not their policy" which is fair enough I guess.

rossc1980

zaxx

see original post


thanks I will give the them a call I think. (cant quote message as it has a link...)

rossc1980

tykesi wrote: »

Not sure what opening and closing the zips in the same big house has anything to do with it though

just saw this bit lol. it was supposed to pre-empt the "are you sure did all the zips up properly?" questions.


In answer, Yes I did, as nothing came in through the others

wealdroam

rossc1980 wrote: »

LilElvis
The Brussels regulation says otherwise because they are targeting the UK as a marketplace.


wont let me post links to the relevant pages

What is this 'Brussels regulation' you mention?

If you are talking about EU Directives, then it is up to each EU member state to incorporate the directive into their own legislation.

The UK legislation for things like this is The Sale of Goods Act.
SoGA offers more to the consumer than EU Directives require.

No doubt Germany have also incorporated the EU Directive into their legislation, but the point remains, for a trader based in Germany, it is German Legislation that you need to look to to enforce your rights.

As mentioned above, get in touch with The UK European Consumer Centre.
As it says on their homepage:

The UK European Consumer Centre offers free and impartial advice and assistance in cross-border European disputes between consumers and traders.