MSE News: Collective switching comes of age as 60,000 save £10 million

redux

MSE_Dan_L wrote: »

Just to confirm on this point, the Sainsbury's Energy tariff is the cheapest tariff available on the market at present based on average annual usage (based on Ofgem's usage figures) of 13,500 kwh gas and 3,200 kwh electricity across all energy regions.

As you've seen, it is possible that for some usage types, in some regions to find other tariffs which are cheaper. We show these on the 'full market comparison' section of your Energy Club results page. This should help you to spot if there are cheaper alternatives for you.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Thank you. Now I'll clear something up for you.

I entered figures of 13000 kWh gas and 3200 kWh electricity, which are not wildly different from those typical figures, and was told £19 a year more for your promoted tariff.

I edited the gas figure to copy the 13500 kWh you mention, and my electricity was already the same.

Now the CEC deal would cost £21 a year more.

I just searched at 5 places in other supply areas, and found your recommendation to cost £5, £5, £7 more, £7 and £17 less.

Given the amounts and the populations of those areas the claim " For most it's by far the cheapest deal, with huge savings" might be a bit difficult to support.

And I repeat the point about £60 exit fee, compared to zero on mine, and the relative merits of being agile or committed during a period of falling prices.

MSE_Dan_L

Hi Canterwest

We really were careful in both the weekly email and our Big Winter Switch Event II page. Here we've highlighted that 'for most this is the cheapest tariff' and also included a note on how the prices have been calculated.

In terms of the 3 yr tariff from the last collective switch, MSE doesn't provide advice on which tariff to choose. It is a personal decision (based on your position around price surety) whether to fix long or short. In October/November 2014 the tariff offered by Scottish Power was significantly cheaper than others on the market for a similar length of time, but it was clear that costs were higher than for shorter tariffs.

We've tried to make some of the issues to consider clear in our tariff reviews (good for you if, not good for you if).

I hope this helps to clear things up for you.

MSE_Dan_L

redux wrote: »

I entered figures of 13000 kWh gas and 3200 kWh electricity, which are not wildly different from those typical figures, and was told £19 a year more for your promoted tariff.

I edited the gas figure to copy the 13500 kWh you mention, and my electricity was already the same.

Now the CEC deal would cost £21 a year more.

I just searched at 5 places in other supply areas, and found your recommendation to cost £5, £5, £7 more, £7 and £17 less.

Given the amounts and the populations of those areas the claim " For most it's by far the cheapest deal, with huge savings" might be a bit difficult to support.

.

Ahh, thanks for that. So it sounds like (although I could be wrong) that you're comparing the Sainsbury's Energy tariff with your current tariff, rather than that you've spotted a cheaper tariff available to switch to at the moment. Absolutely, it is possible that you're already on a cheaper tariff (which is no longer available to new switchers).

What I was trying to explain is that for average usage, the Sainsbury's tariff should normally be the cheapest option available on the market.

If I've missed something here, could you drop us an email to energyclub AT moneysavingexpert,com so that we can look into this further?

canterswest

£27.00 cheaper tariff for me without the nasty £60 penalty.

I am pleased that MSE's main switch is at least with a UK business. It is Ofgem that completely sold out to short term demands of politicians last week. If the regulator does not care about the future why should consumers? Especially bizarre given it also announced an investigation into pre payment plans at the same time as telling empowered consumers on cheaper tariffs to take out even cheaper loss leader tariffs paid for by higher tariffs for the less well off.

MSE_Dan_L

redux wrote: »

And I repeat the point about £60 exit fee, compared to zero on mine, and the relative merits of being agile or committed during a period of falling prices.

Absolutely - normally we don't like exit fees. However this time around, quite simply there weren't any cheap no-exit fee tariffs available. Particularly on the one year fix the saving you'd make should easily outweigh cost of penalties if you need to leave.

canterswest

MSE_Dan_L wrote: »

Hi Canterwest

We really were careful in both the weekly email and our Big Winter Switch Event II page. Here we've highlighted that 'for most this is the cheapest tariff' and also included a note on how the prices have been calculated.

In terms of the 3 yr tariff from the last collective switch, MSE doesn't provide advice on which tariff to choose. It is a personal decision (based on your position around price surety) whether to fix long or short. In October/November 2014 the tariff offered by Scottish Power was significantly cheaper than others on the market for a similar length of time, but it was clear that costs were higher than for shorter tariffs.

We've tried to make some of the issues to consider clear in our tariff reviews (good for you if, not good for you if).

I hope this helps to clear things up for you.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=50840859&postcount=7

It is unsustainable to carry on a business which makes money from sales but to refuse to acknowledge your customers have rights.

I realise that the vast majority of sales by MSE do not cause consumer detriment but when they do your customers have rights just like for any other sales business.

If you don't want to give customers rights then simply stop taking money for sales, just publish as information that has no commercial benefit to MSE.

polymaff

This "blowing your own trumpet" by MSE is really inappropriate - again. CEC is a good idea, as are many of the other effective things MSE gets up to, but the messianic hyperbole over the various collective energy deals makes MSE look rather pathetic. It diminishes MSE's credibility, so let's have an end to it.

redux

MSE_Dan_L wrote: »

Ahh, thanks for that. So it sounds like (although I could be wrong) that you're comparing the Sainsbury's Energy tariff with your current tariff, rather than that you've spotted a cheaper tariff available to switch to at the moment. Absolutely, it is possible that you're already on a cheaper tariff (which is no longer available to new switchers).

What I was trying to explain is that for average usage, the Sainsbury's tariff should normally be the cheapest option available on the market.

If I've missed something here, could you drop us an email to energyclub AT moneysavingexpert,com so that we can look into this further?

Not quite.

Yes, I didn't spot a cheaper service using your search.

I'm already on a cheaper tariff, and your recommendation is more expensive, by £18 or £19 here.

But you've made a wrong assumption. That tariff launched recently and is still currently available, and fixes until exactly the same date next year.

I'm saying the Sainsburys tariff is not the cheapest currently available here, and not in 3 of 5 randomly chosen areas (including London, where MSE staff may be based), and savings of £7 or £17 a year in other areas don't necessarily qualify for the claim of huge savings.

MSE_Dan_L wrote: »

Absolutely - normally we don't like exit fees. However this time around, quite simply there weren't any cheap no-exit fee tariffs available. Particularly on the one year fix the saving you'd make should easily outweigh cost of penalties if you need to leave.

I don't follow your reasoning, as it doesn't seem well founded.

As already said, this house has a cheap no-exit fee tariff that is currently available.

If it was currently already on that Sainsburys tariff, a new search for here would show me a prospect of paying £60 to leave it in order to save £19 a year on this or £23 on another supplier, or 7 other tariffs cheaper than Sainsburys.

As it is, I could leave this one for free, but there is no point as Sainsburys is more expensive.

I'm wondering if your research before launching this promotion was only up until several days ago, and some new tariffs have superseded some of your assumptions.

If so, try some new searches, and them moderate some of the promotional claims and hyperbole.

Sainsburys is not by far the cheapest for the majority of customers, is not a route to huge savings for people on the latest rival tariffs, and has an exit penalty that is too high that has the effect of forcing too much commitment while prices are falling. If annual rates happen to drop by another £30 to £100 in the next few months, some people might come to resent your advice, whereas I can swap free at the drop of a hat, from a tariff that is already cheaper.

Even if my guess about your research position being a few days out of date turns out to be correct, and if you update it in the near future, this point about the exit fee still stands and can have the effect of undermining your advice.

MSE_Dan_L

I'm sorry Redux, but I can't spot a cheaper tariff without exit fees on the site. I'd like to reassure you that the facts on the site and in the weekly email have been checked as of last night, so I'd be surprised if there's something which we've missed.

I've double-checked this on a few postcodes, but unfortunately couldn't spot the problem you mention. If you could drop us an email to energyclub AT moneysavingexpert.com I'd be happy to check this out. It'd be great if you could provide some examples that you've checked.

redux

MSE_Dan_L wrote: »

I'm sorry Redux, but I can't spot a cheaper tariff without exit fees on the site. I'd like to reassure you that the facts on the site and in the weekly email have been checked as of last night, so I'd be surprised if there's something which we've missed.

I've double-checked this on a few postcodes, but unfortunately couldn't spot the problem you mention. If you could drop us an email to energyclub AT moneysavingexpert.com I'd be happy to check this out. It'd be great if you could provide some examples that you've checked.

Sorry, I don't want to get into correspondence about this, especially not as you are being paid for your time on this and I'm not.

Scottish Power Online Fixed Price Energy February 2016

It is not the only one in the best price range, but it certainly does have zero exit, while the latest E.on is £23 cheaper here than Sainsburys and has only £10 exit.

I've now searched more than 5 places, and not written them down, but I remember
London, Stockport, Bradford, Coventry, Southampton, near Cambridge.

p.s. I'm not saying that your comparison tool is faulty, only that the subsequent interpretation and email highlights may be wrong or incomplete

This is it says about the Sainsburys tariff here

Will cost you more than you pay now
£19/year
£1.58/month