Heart rate as an effort measurement

thx1138

I was wondering if anyone else has observed this phenomenon with their own heart rate:

It doesn't seem to matter how hard I work out, how fast I run, how brutal an Insanity interval, etc.., I cannot seem to get my heart rate over 120 beats per minute. In fact 100 is the usual highest, and I have delved into the rarified realm of 120 perhaps only once or twice.

My resting pulse is about 42 and I am 58 years of age. I've asked my doctor about this, and he's a runner, and he says it's not the absolute heart rate that matters so much as the relative rate.

AND YET

Everywhere in the literature I read things that suggest if your heart rate isn't at 180 then you're really not working! So who's right? Anyone else have the same problem, if problem is indeed what it is?

lr1277

Ok then, how does your perception of effort compare to your heart rate.
Where your perceived level of effort is 1 would be equivalent to lying in bed. 10 would be a gut busting, heart bursting effort.
So when you got to 120 bpm, did your effort feel like a 10? As a bit of extra help, running at a conversational pace should have a perceived effort of 6 or 7, depending on how fit you are.


Also these absolute numbers can be meaningless. If I didn't know my max heart rate, it could be calculated by subtracting my age from 220, which would give a figure of 175.
When running, the last 5 - 10 minutes can go up to high as 180 and I am still here. Also the perceived effort level at those times was about 8 - 9.


HTH.

thx1138

lr1277 wrote: »

Ok then, how does your perception of effort compare to your heart rate.
Where your perceived level of effort is 1 would be equivalent to lying in bed. 10 would be a gut busting, heart bursting effort.
So when you got to 120 bpm, did your effort feel like a 10? As a bit of extra help, running at a conversational pace should have a perceived effort of 6 or 7, depending on how fit you are.

Maybe that's the problem. I never feel like I'm giving a 10 effort. My all out fastest is just under seven minutes per mile. Yet I recover from that effort very quickly and never feel truly tired. For example, in my twenties I did track intervals at around 65-70 seconds for 400m. At the end of, say, 20 of those I was truly knackered and felt shaky and drained. I can't seem to recapture that! Is it simply because my speed isn't up to it any more?

Anyway, good questions. Similar to the ones the doctor asked.

somethingcorporate

Are you just doing middle-long distance?

I've had the same issue, I get fatugued but never truly exhausted as I could get in my youth running my heart out for 90 minutes on the football pitch.

I can run a quick(ish) HM and feel tired but never really totally holding my self up kind of tired that I would love to recapture.

thx1138

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Are you just doing middle-long distance?

I've had the same issue, I get fatugued but never truly exhausted as I could get in my youth running my heart out for 90 minutes on the football pitch.

I can run a quick(ish) HM and feel tired but never really totally holding my self up kind of tired that I would love to recapture.

Ten kilometers is my idea of the perfect distance. These days I can manage a sub 50.

Perhaps it's all just about age.

I'd love to do a sub forty and, if it's not too ambitious, a sub 35. But I can't seem to break into that pain barrier. Is the limitation physical or psychological?

By the way, I used to do track workouts with Jim O'Neill. He held all the age 60 long distance records back in his day ....

lr1277

Do you do any speedwork? Say hill training or interval training?


I take it you have a HRM? If so, does it have a max heart rate feature? If so, use it in the following test.


Hill training: Warm up for 10 - 15 minutes. Find a moderately steep hill, between 100 and 200m. Run up it as fast as you can. Jog back down. Repeat 3 - 5 times. Warm down.
Find the max HR from your monitor. It could be as the doctor suggests and it is all relative.


The following is not medical advice, just an anecdote, perhaps worthy of further investigation.
At school, one of the girl's in my class, undertook some exercise type of effort, but her heart rate did not rise, at all. Our biology teacher suggested that instead of beating faster, the heart was expanding even more than normal, thus keeping the heart rate constant. Now I don't know if this is a 'thing', but you could ask your doctor about it.

FBaby

We had that discussion with my OH the other day. I'm in my mid-40s and have been physically active for many years, really picked training up in the last 12 months, did a triathlon and half-marathon in last 6 months, train 4/5 times a week. I have upped running speed and now can do 10k run easily without feeling out of breath, even singing through it....and yet, my heart rate remains what it was over 10 years ago....160!

It is odd because I feel really good, not like I am pushing myself when I used to feel like I was pushing myself to the max before doing shorter distance at a shorter pace, but heart rate has not changed! It does go down very quickly though as I stop and I do feel that my resting rate has reduced. I am fit, eat fine, don't drink, never smoked, sleep well.

My OH who is very active can't get his heart rate over 130 no matter what. I think I have read that there is a difference between male and female, but haven't looked into it more.

thx1138

lr1277 wrote: »

Do you do any speedwork? Say hill training or interval training?


I take it you have a HRM? If so, does it have a max heart rate feature? If so, use it in the following test.


Hill training: Warm up for 10 - 15 minutes. Find a moderately steep hill, between 100 and 200m. Run up it as fast as you can. Jog back down. Repeat 3 - 5 times. Warm down.
Find the max HR from your monitor. It could be as the doctor suggests and it is all relative.


The following is not medical advice, just an anecdote, perhaps worthy of further investigation.
At school, one of the girl's in my class, undertook some exercise type of effort, but her heart rate did not rise, at all. Our biology teacher suggested that instead of beating faster, the heart was expanding even more than normal, thus keeping the heart rate constant. Now I don't know if this is a 'thing', but you could ask your doctor about it.

Yes I do do hills and intervals and have a heart rate monitor.

When I was fourteen a phys ed teacher commented at how slow my heart rate was after exercise, so this is nothing new.

Your theory that my heart may be slow but has greater stroke volume is intriguing. You may very well be right. I wonder if that means if I were able to actually get my heart rate up I would be supplying my muscles with a uniquely large oxygen supply? Intriguing, thanks.

Lizling

I've noticed before that when I'm training for longer distance events, I stop being able to push myself as hard on the short stuff. It's as if I've got too much into the habit of holding a bit back. Maybe there could be an element of that going on.

I doubt that'd be the whole story though. 120 for max effort does sound reeeallly low.

Do you ever run with other people, like at a club? I'll push myself MUCH harder if I'm running against friends/rivals in a coached session than if I'm out on my own. I can't push myself to wobbly gasping for breath eyes and ears going funny stage either, but I can't not do it if I'm getting competitive against friends.

thx1138

Lizling wrote: »

I've noticed before that when I'm training for longer distance events, I stop being able to push myself as hard on the short stuff. It's as if I've got too much into the habit of holding a bit back. Maybe there could be an element of that going on.

I doubt that'd be the whole story though. 120 for max effort does sound reeeallly low.

Do you ever run with other people, like at a club? I'll push myself MUCH harder if I'm running against friends/rivals in a coached session than if I'm out on my own. I can't push myself to wobbly gasping for breath eyes and ears going funny stage either, but I can't not do it if I'm getting competitive against friends.

Not any more. I used to. But these days I prefer to train alone. Perhaps it's folly to think so but it seems to me that if I can really push myself alone then I will develop extreme mental toughness.

Though I do use a treadmill at times. The treadmills where I work out go up to an astonishing 25km/hour. That's 3.51 mile pace or thereabouts. Not that I go that quick. But I have got it up to 19.4 km/hour, or just at five minute pace.

Yet -- even then I can't get the thing over 120!

SanguineSteve

Have you tried a different HR monitor?

120 sounds crazy low.

I've always used the 220 - Age as a guide, but i'm on the high side. Resting usually 70ish, highest i've seen for me was 206bpm on a particularly savage climb.