Easier to be OS in the olden days?

[Deleted User]

Life has always had people who will willingly 'play the system' who live 'on tick' who feel that the rules apply to everyone else but NOT to them, even in world war 2 there were people who would happily support the black marketers who could get you anything you wanted at a price. My generation are not exempt from blame but I have to say that there weren't so many of them who would take the risks back them. We tended to save up and have the cash before making the purchase however I do know that credit was not easily had in those days and perhaps we, well most of us, didn't have that feeling that we 'should' have it all. We tended to be more content with what we could afford. I know rents are extortionate these days no matter where you are and DD1 was paying £1200 a month before she saved the deposit for her first little house, the mortgage is much more affordable so I do have a sympathy and an understanding of your ire and position re your landlord. It is hard that anyone is in such a position and struggling. This may not be an idea you would embrace but, have you ever considered teaching as a career, with your degree you would need to do a PGCE year and would then only go in at NQT level, which doesn't pay you a fortune but you can make career advancements and the pay scale isn't too shabby as you go up in seniority. Teaching is no sinecure though, you have to be tough to stay the course, it's not just 9 to 3.30 and 'all those holidays dear' it's grueling, leaves you very little personal time, it's all consuming at times and frustrating when you have youngsters who are capable who just won't work. On the plus side though it's the most rewarding job on the planet when you do have successes and perhaps help someone to achieve levels they didn't think they were capable of. You sound like the kind of person who would succeed in teaching, who would have the experience and drive to help young folks reach their potential and there are shortages of all subject teachers, particularly in the sciences. It might not be your chosen path, but would use your degree and perhaps give you lots of personal satisfaction? Worth considering maybe?

lessonlearned

Some excellent points there Mrs L.

I agree teaching may be a way out of your predicament kboss, although I have to concur - it's not for the faint hearted.

kboss - I do understand your position - I have two sons and I fully understand the problems faced by our young people. I think rampant global capitalism and the growth of technology have only just started to destabilise our economy, the worst is still to come.

The unemployment we have seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg, there is far worse to come.

Re bankruptcy. I'm going to throw another view point into the ring.

Going bankrupt is not always the bogeyman we should fear the most.

I have known several businessmen go bankrupt when their businesses failed. The best of them simply pick themselves up Nd try again. Bankruptcy allowed them to draw a line and concentrate their efforts on rebuilding.

Yes I realsie that bankruptcy can make life very difficult for your creditors but that is the world of business, there is no such thing as a risk free enterprise and no such thing as risk free investment.

I,ve worked for a couple of ex bankrupts.

One of them in particular always stands as a shining example of the "if at first you don,t succeed, try, try and try again". When I worked for him he had already been made bankrupt twice and he was just starting out again.

The third time he was successful. He built a huge very profitable business. Not only did he make himself a very rich man, he employed hundreds of people and generated circles of wealth. He is now pretty high up on the Sunday Times Rich List and his companies have been floated on the stock exchange, making even more money for investors.

I take your point about home ownership and high rents. Historically rents have always been high in relation to income.

When I was born my parents lived in one room in someone's house, with a bathroom and kitchen shared with four other families.

It took them years to escape and the three of us all lived in that one room until I was nearly 5 years old. That was 60 years ago.

A lack of affordable housing is not a new phenomenon, there has never been a golden age of cheap housing.

Yes the prices may have been lower in the past but then so we're wages. Saving for a deposit has always been the problem. For the vast majority it has always meant skimping, saving and making sacrifices to scrape that deposit together.

Some but not all of the younger generation may receive help from parents and families to get on the housing ladder, either as a gift or loan or from Inheritance.

For the majority of us oldies there was no such leg up, our families had no money to help themselves let alone help their offspring. Most of us had to stand in our own two feet and do it the hard way.

Kboss - your anger and frustration are understandable but they aren't really productive. Better to conserve your energy and focus your efforts into improving your situation, the same for your friends who cry at the end of the phone.

I've wept with cold, with anger and with frustration, it got me nowhere. The only thing that improved my situation was resolve, staying power and endurance.

Sometimes you just have to weather the storms, head down and keep moving forward.

kboss2010

Thanks, MrsL and Lessons, for your viewpoints.

I've considered teaching but I know so many teachers struggling to get jobs that I really don't think it's worth the money to go back to uni for. Half of my OH's family are teachers and they're all fighting for jobs amid council cutbacks and they've all been teaching for decades.

I'm currently looking at funded PhDs with a view to expanding my repertoire to include microbiology to go with my inorganic chemistry, organic chemistry, environmental analysis and marine experience. If nothing else I can start to look at food, NHS and environmental health jobs as well as oil, marine and fisheries jobs. If nothing else, a PhD is an extra line on my CV and, if funded, a wage for the next 3 years.

It's difficult knowing what to do for the best, what's worth your investment of both time and money.

Goldiegirl

I think it's human nature to be 'jealous' of the generation before yours, thinking they had it somehow easier than you have it.


When I first started on the housing ladder in the early 80's, on my 16% mortgage ( you had to pay additional interest if you had an endowment mortgage, and extra if you had a large mortgage, in my case £20K), I was very jealous of those people who had bought their houses in the 60's and early 70's, for £2000, and had tiny mortgages, and were only paying £10 a month. Not to mention they generally had jobs for life, and were on the verge of collecting a final salary pension, which they had been contributing to since they left school.


But, the only thing I could do was get my head down and get on with it, and play the hand that had been dealt to my generation.


Kboss, you won't believe me, but in 30 years time, the young people will be jealous of your generation.


That's the way is always is

kboss2010

Goldiegirl wrote: »

I think it's human nature to be 'jealous' of the generation before yours, thinking they had it somehow easier than you have it.


When I first started on the housing ladder in the early 80's, on my 16% mortgage ( you had to pay additional interest if you had an endowment mortgage, and extra if you had a large mortgage, in my case £20K), I was very jealous of those people who had bought their houses in the 60's and early 70's, for £2000, and had tiny mortgages, and were only paying £10 a month. Not to mention they generally had jobs for life, and were on the verge of collecting a final salary pension, which they had been contributing to since they left school.


But, the only thing I could do was get my head down and get on with it, and play the hand that had been dealt to my generation.


Kboss, you won't believe me, but in 30 years time, the young people will be jealous of your generation.


That's the way is always is

And that makes me equally sad. I already see how the people 10 years younger than me are going to struggle even more than us. Surely there has to be a better way forward?

lessonlearned

kboss2010 wrote: »

And that makes me equally sad. I already see how the people 10 years younger than me are going to struggle even more than us. Surely there has to be a better way forward?

At the risk of sounding negative I don't think there is a better way forward.

When you are parents you want to give your children a better easier life than the one you had. That's what parenting is about. The reality is each generation has its own challenges to face and we cannot pre-empt them all.

I have tried to help my boys to the best of my ability helping them with deposits, helping them through uni but most importantly teaching them the practical skills and psychological mindset they will need to face the challenges to come.

It's all a parent can do, then we just have to take a back seat and let the next generation get on with it.

Yes the future looks uncertain, but then again, futures always do, by definition. We can never know what life has in store for us, it's probably better that we don't know what lies ahead.

As others have said you you just have to play the hand you are dealt, facing whatever life throws at you with courage, optimism and enthusiasm. It really is a case of who dares wins.

Life really can be a roller coaster, you just have to hang on and ride it for all its worth.

Re the PhD. Do it if you have a real passion and thirst for knowledge, don't do it purely to improve your job prospects. You have to really love what you do otherwise you will end up feeling bitter and resentful.

My eldest son has a PhD in maths but then he is a maths geek:rotfl: he is very academic and very cerebal. Maths comes easily to him and he adores continuing to learn and develop. He is now a senior engineer and is doing well, more to the point he loves his job and would probably work for nothing.....

My second son is dreamy and artistic with an arts degree.

It was always obvious that my boys would be natural academics and that they would just naturally gravitate to further education. However I was adamant that they also needed to acquire practical hands on skills.

From the age of 11 or so I encouraged them to acquire a broad range of diy skills. Each summer holiday we would undertake a large project to keep them occupied. I would not let them fritter away their time playing computer games day in, day out.

They can now turn their hands to just about any diy job, bricklaying, plastering, carpentry, hard landscaping, they can cook, sew, garden and control budgets. If they lost their jobs tomorrow they could set up as self employed handy men, gardeners or cooks.

This is what I meant about flexibility and being able to adapt to changing circumstances. Academic ability by itself is no longer enough, the competition for jobs is just too fierce.

Successful applicants are the ones who are multi skilled, who can hit the ground running and add outstanding value to their employer.

A PhD may help but then again it could be that you would be offering prospective employers more of the same. What you really need to offer is that certain "je ne sais quois" that makes you stand out from the crowd.

meritaten

I totally 'get' what you say about university degrees being 'devalued'. in my youth a university degree virtually set you up for a 'good' job. nowadays its almost a requirement for any job. it just doesn't have that 'cachet' now. and that is a shame.
also it puts those 'without' in a category which employers immediately think is 'unintelligent'. which is unfair.
BUT - in life you deal with the hand that is dealt you. in days past a university education was totally out of reach for most ordinary people. my cousin was really disadvantaged. of Pakistani origin (mother Welsh though) she went to the same school as me, was in my class, had to go to technical college to get 'O' levels, she went on to teach having got her teaching certificate the hard way. she went on to become head of English (oh the Irony) and eventually Head Teacher. but I seriously doubt it could be done now. the days of starting at the bottom and working your way up have become increasingly harder.
I see it so often - companies expecting graduates to start at the bottom and 'fast track'. it doesn't really work in my view. and what is really worse - especially in my husbands company - graduates coming in and having no idea of the 'reality' of the job - outlining working practices and 'targets'. based on 'paper projections'.

Shortypie

Caterina wrote: »

Shortypie, I live in London and occasionally organise OS meet ups, hoping to do one in early December, so if you are interested to come along I shall teach you to crochet. It is very simple to make a basic bedspread, you just do a giant granny square, I have made one each for my two (adult) children and they love them.

Where in London are you? I am in SE London, not far from Blackheath.

BTW I love the Geffrye museum!

Thanks caterina - I am quite near you, in Bromley Borough. Will prob have to rain check the OS meet up as we are *hopefully* moving some time early to mid December! but would like to take you up on it when we are settled.

I'd love to get back to the Geffrye this year (unlikely)

Shorty

kboss2010

To me, it seems as though all employers want now is someone with 5 years min of experience of the exact job you're applying for otherwise you have no chance. All of the detailed feedback I've had from interviews is 'interview was great, CV was good there was just someone with more experience'. I'd almost rather be told my interview technique was rubbish because at least then I'd have something I could work on improving

It's maybe just the fields I'm applying in but they don't care about the extra-curricular section of my CV. I taught myself to cook and sew, I worked as a banker for years so I'm really good at balancing budgets, I'm also a dancer in a team who performs at festivals and corporate events. I've never once been asked about any of it.

I'm thinking of teaching myself some programming languages to see if that helps. I'd also really like to do a stats course. I HATE maths with a passion but it's a necessary evil in the skill set of a scientist. Professional biologists particularly tend not to do their own stats, they seem to hand their data off to statisticians a lot of the time so that could help.

At this point I really have no clue.

kboss2010

meritaten wrote: »

I totally 'get' what you say about university degrees being 'devalued'. in my youth a university degree virtually set you up for a 'good' job. nowadays its almost a requirement for any job. it just doesn't have that 'cachet' now. and that is a shame.
also it puts those 'without' in a category which employers immediately think is 'unintelligent'. which is unfair.
BUT - in life you deal with the hand that is dealt you. in days past a university education was totally out of reach for most ordinary people. my cousin was really disadvantaged. of Pakistani origin (mother Welsh though) she went to the same school as me, was in my class, had to go to technical college to get 'O' levels, she went on to teach having got her teaching certificate the hard way. she went on to become head of English (oh the Irony) and eventually Head Teacher. but I seriously doubt it could be done now. the days of starting at the bottom and working your way up have become increasingly harder.
I see it so often - companies expecting graduates to start at the bottom and 'fast track'. it doesn't really work in my view. and what is really worse - especially in my husbands company - graduates coming in and having no idea of the 'reality' of the job - outlining working practices and 'targets'. based on 'paper projections'.

Oh I totally see why companies think a lot of grads are useless - because we get little to no actual work experience on most degree courses. You learn more about the working environment with your part-time job in a bar/shop/restaurant/strip club (so many girls I knew worked as strippers or escorts to fund their degrees!) as a student than you ever learn at uni.

And you're right about not being able to work your way up anymore. At some point you're bound to get 'stuck' because you don't have a degree/Masters/PhD/Post Doc, I went back to do my MSc because I realised my undergrad degree was getting me nowhere fast. It's why I'm considering a PhD because, hopefully when I get a job, at some point I'm probably going to need that title to progress to the next step and it's easier to do a PhD while I'm young than wait until I'm 35. But then that's another 4 years before I enter the job market at the bottom again.

I'm so glad I don't want kids because at this rate I'd never have the time or money anyway!