Easier to be OS in the olden days?

kboss2010

cavework wrote: »

When were you born?

Sorry, I've been away job-hunting for a few days.

In response to your question, '88.

My academic year were the first to get landed with these extortionate tuition fees and we graduated the year after the recession hit - a double whammy which left us with high amounts of university debt, no jobs and no chance of ever getting a mortgage in at least the next 10 years without help from our parents. I feel more sorry for the current grads, they're paying insane levels of tuition fees and haven't got a hope in hell's chance of getting a quality of life equivalent to that of their parents.

It's incredibly frustrating to be the generation who is paying for the previous generation's greed - they over-borrowed, bought up all of the housing for buy-to-let investments, refuse to invest money to keep said properties liveable while charging sky-high rents, sucked the universities dry, contributed nothing to their education financially then have the cheek to tell us that we should pay £9k a year for the education they got for free and just accept that we'll have to work in retail on minimum wage when we graduate?

I have no problem working hard from the bottom to earn a decent wage but when you have 500 people applying for every grad job, no one will give you the opportunity to learn how to do a job and the universities are refusing to teach us to be employment-ready from graduation citing lack of funds for practical teaching (?!? I want to know where every student's 9k is going!) it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

Every under-25 I know is struggling to find employment in their chosen field (chemistry, biology, engineering, dentistry, law... these aren't useless degrees) and yet every 35-45 year old I know is happily secure in a job with a mortgage, most have kids, paid off what little student debt they had and are earning more than enough to survive. Yes, they may have worked hard and I don't begrudge them the jobs they've worked for but I'm sick of hearing that 'oh well we did it and managed' accusation from many. When I was at high school, there was one job for every three grads. It just doesn't even compare to today's stats.

PhD students are being hired for jobs that, 10 years ago, only required an HND. Graduates are being forced into minimum wage retail jobs with little hope of anything else. If you need a degree to work in Tesco, what chance have the kids got who are leaving school and trying to enter the workforce got? Nevermind those who are losing their jobs and re-entering the work force for the first time in 25 years. They feel like they've been hit with a brick! I know my mother got the shock of her life when she was made redundant and, three years later, * still* can't find a job with 25 years' worth of experience in the insurance industry.

The entire global economy is working on a model that doesn't work and, to make things worse, the institutions our grandparents worked so hard to acheive - the NHS, state pension, benefits for the vulnerable - are being stripped bare and sold off to the highest bidder by people who will probably be dead in 30 years and so don't care that we'll be left picking up the scraps.

Sorry, it just makes me so angry that the people who caused this mess have lost nothing and those who didn't are footing the bill and continuing to line their pockets at the same time! :mad:

[Deleted User]

I'm of a much older generation and there have ALWAYS been problems for people starting out in life. I didn't get to go to university as my parents private war ended in a divorce in the late 1960s and I got told half way through A levels to 'go and get a job we won't pay for your laziness any more!' So I joined the civil service and managed 9 months before I had the ultimatum from my mother that she was ill and I had to give up all to look after the family while she was in hospital or she'd lay on the sofa and die and it would be my fault. So I did and 3 years later when, fully recovered and home again she said' You are a lazy and stupid person do you think I'm going to keep you forever? go and get a job or I'll put you out'. I know your experience in life has been difficult and that you are not now in the place you thought you would be after your hard work and gaining your degree but you can't just blame older generations for all of it. We worked very hard, doing whatever was available as a job and saw some very tight times financially and He Who Knows as a professional scientist with a degree was, even as early as the 1970s always under threat of redundancy as the labs and their worth to the company was constantly under review. We were very lucky to retain his job but ended up paying a mortgage at the highest rate of interest it ever got to and had some very tough times trying to make ends meat while we had very young children to look after. We cut our garment according to our cloth and managed, just!

We have two daughters who both went to university and I got a job and earned their fees to have them in the bank before they went as we didn't qualify for any kind of financial help from anywhere. They have both chosen to work in fields where they are able through hard work to progress in seniority DD1 is a Head of Department in teaching and well on her way to a senior management post and DD2 is a GP and works very long hours, some evenings and is on call some weekends but both have and continue to work as hard as is required to do the job they are paid to do. Their choices got them to where they are now, NOT luck, NOT being in a priveleged position, NOT having parents rolling in cash but knowing where they wanted to go career wise and working towards that from the age of 11, both of them! The right A levels, the right university and the right choice of carer which they have BOTH earned by hard work and diligence.

It's so sad that your life has not taken the path you saw it taking and that you are in such a difficult position now, but please don't blanket blame all of us oldies, we have had difficult times too and times when we couldn't do or get what was needed but we have made sacrifices and difficult choices too in our lives, done jobs never anticipated to make ends meet and now in retirement are still having to be sensible and make the right choices to stay out of debt and stay healthy and we're managing, not much slack, but we're managing.

mardatha

kboss I sympathise with your frustration pet, but there's not a hell of a lot we can do about it now is there? We all do what govts and TPTB tell us to, each generation, and you cant blame all of us for the mess the country is in.

Nargleblast

Well said, mardatha. Each generation has its own hardships which are measured within the context of the day. My DD earned her degree through hard work but it took 200 job applications and part time work in a coffee shop chain before she landed her present job.
You just have to work with where you are and what you've got.

lessonlearned

Kboss - your generation is not paying for the greed of previous generations. Please do not fall for this one. It's a fallacy, pure and simple.

The truth is all generations have their trials and tribulations and they have to be seen in context.

The boomer bashers take things out of context. They look at people in their 50's, 60's and 70's and see (some, I repeat some) people sitting pretty and living comfortable lives.

I have to digress here and point out that not all older people have money, some are as poor as church mice.

However for those that hAve fared ok, who are mortgage and debt free and enjoying happy and carefree retirements, then usually this bounty comes as a result of a lifetime of hard work.

i often see the older generation being criticised for holding the most wealth, well yes - they have had longer to acquire it, so there's no earth shattering surprise there is there.

Like many on this thread I left school at 15, no tertiary education for me. I've had 33 jobs, not counting the jobs I had whilst i was still at school. I had my first job when I was 13. I did eventually go to uni when I was 40.

To survive and thrive in this world you need to be flexible and to have the ability to change and adapt to whatever life throws at you.

If your degree is not opening the right doors or any doors, then perhaps it's time for a rethink. Have you backed yourself into an evolutionary cul de sac.

Those that do well have the ability to evolve, they have practical skills coupled with imagination and creative thinking.

That's how many of us survived our lowly beginnings and poverty stricken childhoods. We looked around, saw that everyone else was the same and we set about trying to improve our situations.

All of us just have to play the hand we are dealt.

[Deleted User]

I think one of the reasons behind the difficulties for graduates today is directly due to the government drive in the 90s and early 2,000s to get 50% of the population to university. I'm not saying that in a critical or denigrating way and yes, if they have the capability to do so, university education is a right for all those who can and do get their places and their degrees. It's one of those things that at a practical level are almost doomed to fail before they're done. 50% of the population with a degree doesn't mean that there will be degree level jobs for all the 50% of the populace graduates. It means that for every graduate with a degree there will be less choice and ultimately less jobs available and given the uncertainty in financial terms across the whole world it doesn't look as though there will be changes for the better any time soon. I'm part of a generation just post war and I can remember my parents being forcefully pushy that I had a white collar job, and really putting on the pressure when the 11+ came around. It was that every parent who had been through the war years seemed to want their children to be higher up in the heirarchy than they were. It was difficult then too and perhaps it would be a sensible move now to look at what might be an alternative career, something that you have a talent for but perhaps don't consider academic. There are shortages in engineering and many other practical skills in the work force, might there be a field in which your existing degree could be utilised and therefore useful in gaining you the job you want so much?

Gigervamp

I agree Mrs L, I was a labour supporter at the time and I thought it was a mad idea. I could see where it would head.
Apart from the lack of suitable jobs, it also means that jobs where before you'd be able to start at the bottom with normal qualifications, nowadays employers are expecting degrees.

suki1964

Kbass, don't you appreciate how fortunate you are to have had the opportunity of an university education? That was something that was not available to all and sundry when I was at school in the 60's /70's if you went to the local comprehensive university wasn't for you. The only people I knew ever getting to university were those from the grammar school, who's parents knew an education was important and scrimped and scraped to put their kids through the grammar and then onto university. I was accepted to the grammar but my parents never had the money to send me to it. And in any case it was closed and merged with the comprehensive by time I was 14

Like most my education ended at 15 and straight out to work I too left school during a huge recession, the only option for the lads looking work was the army. The early 80's were very hard times with industry being closed left right and centre. Factory workers, miners, dockers, printers, all losing their jobs. We had major rioting on our streets. You got a job, any job, and you were grateful for it. For a long time I was the only wage earner on a shop wage, supporting my little sister and my dad

Norman Tebbit said in 1981 "I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking till he found it." And that's something my husband has had to do. First he left his home town and moved 500 miles for work. He arrived in London with just £17 and kipped on a friends floor. With his first weeks wages he got a sleeping bag and slept in the site hut. 15 years later he wanted to return home as his dad had died and his mum was getting old. So we sold up and moved. 1 year later the crash came. Construction in this country (NI) was hit bad, practically every site going closed and every company went under. So he got back on his bike ( a plane) and commuted every month back to london for the past eight years. Finally he's returned home and and if finding the odd, very low paid job. Today he was up at 6, to travel to Belfast for work. He won't be home till 6 tonight and for a five day week he will be just about be earning what he was earring in a day 5 months ago in London

I've not quite had as many jobs as lessonlearned, but I've had a good variety. Started as a shop assistant and now a chef. I'm on NMW and on zero hours. But it's a job. And a job I like

Yes we are mortgage free - through hard work and the luck of the low mortgage rates. However we now have scant savings so we still have to work when we had planned for retirement

But we aren't moaning. We are getting on with it and live quite comfortably. OS plays a big part of that, indeed we are getting more old style as we go on. I'm cutting pennies wherever I can, we are getting the garden turned over to veg and fruit, the car stays in the garage and trips are multifunctional to keep fuel costs down. We use a coal fire instead of having the oil on during the day. In fact if it weren't for the fact I have the mod cons nowadays, my life hasn't changed so much from those early days

Hey, I'm even supporting my mum as she now lives with us lol

candlelight_2013

Like many others I left school at 15. I was 15 in the May, left school in July, I wanted to be a nursery nurse but Mum wouldn't let me. She heard from a friend that the firm of Solicitors her daughter worked for wanted an office junior. I went for an interview, and 2 weeks after leaving school I started work for the princely sum of £3.10s.

What you have to realise is, that if you didn't go on to university there were few options, and at 15 I had to do as my Mum said I wouldn't have dreamt of going against her because my life would have been a misery. There was never any question of not working. Of the £3.10s. I earned I was able to keep £1, and that was for bus fare, nylons and anything personal I needed. Like Lyn has said we just did as we were told.

I look at my DGD who is 15 and think there is no way she is ready to start work. I worked my way up to legal secretary and when I left work to have our first daughter I earned £11.

I then had 10 years as a stay at home mum to our 2 daughters. I then found a part time clerical job in a Register Office. There were 107 applicants, and I was very lucky to be accepted I think. Himself always worked nights so if either of them were ill he was at home to either look after them or take them to appointments. I was asked at the interview if I had made arrangements if the girls were ill, I don't think they are allowed to ask that question now.

After 12 months I was lucky enough to work full time and again worked my way up becoming a Deputy Superintendent Registrar. I was only able to do this with the help and support of Himself, who actually worked all hours God sent, and with the understanding of the girls.

Both our girls have done well in their careers, and to enable DD2 to do this we took over a lot of the child minding when the 3 grandchildren were younger and of course we have a very close relationship with them because of it.

Neither of us have earned vast amounts of money from our jobs, and things were very difficult when I was a SAHM, but we managed, somehow, and also with help from my Mum who was always clearing her freezer out and finding things she didn't need

We are lucky because we both have an occupational pension, but of course we paid into that for a good many years, and we try to be OS and make our pennies go further.

I think all generations experience hardship and disappointment, but you just have to make the best of the hand you have been dealt.

Candlelightx

kboss2010

I appreciate that it's not all older people, but some members of the older generations must take a lot of the responsibility for this current mess.

I've worked in finance, retail and laboratories since I graduated and am constantly taking on further training where my finances allow so I'm willing to be flexible on both type of work and location and, even though I'm currently struggling to find employment, I'm lucky enough to not be at the point where I'm struggling to pay bills just yet.

The same can't be said for my friends unfortunately and I'm more angry on their behalf than my own. I'm tired of having to see my friends stressed to their limit, crying on the phone to me because money is so tight for their families that they can barely afford to eat, living in conditions you wouldn't house a dog in because there's no better housing they can afford and so depressed at the dead-end of trying to find employment that they've considered suicide.

My point is, that when I was working in finance, I saw a HUGE number of these people for whom credit was just seen as 'free money', 110% mortgages were an excuse to go out and spend a fortune on stuff you didn't need all the while just about managing to come out of their overdrafts on payday every month when they were earning salaries that they should have been able to be more than comfortable on until one day they slightly over-stretched on minimum repayment credit cards, loans, mortgages etc. and suddenly were declaring bankruptcy and leaving someone else to worry about the loss of the money they'd borrowed and never paid back. It's difficult to not lay blame where I saw it everyday for 3 and a bit years.

I appreciate that not all older people are rich, but unfortunately, there are many who have profited at the expense of, particularly, current renters unable to get permanent jobs and mortgages. For the last 7 years I've been paying someone else's mortgage at an eye watering monthly sum, prime example being my current landlord, who has managed to pay off a 25-year BTL mortgage in 12 years while refusing to even do basic maintenance. And there is no other option as I've had to live 350 miles away from family to find employment so far.

I keep getting 50+ year olds citing the days of 15% mortgages of the 80's at me but I'd quite happily pay 15% on a mortgage of 40k with the then-average salary of £11k as it would be much cheaper than my current rent bill when you compare that the average house price where I live is £220k and my average salary over the past 4/5 years has been £15k.

Yes, we have it much better than the war generations, but a university education has now become the equivalent of GCSEs - you need that grade on a bit of paper for employers to look at you, but it means nothing to them unless you have years of experience. I'm determined to get to where I want to be in the next 5-10 years however I can, but having seen this financial mess from the inside, it's easy to see where the money has been hoovered up. Everyone blames the banks and, yes, they were irresponsible. But people had personal responsibility too and many, many people just borrowed blindly thinking the gravy train would last forever.

It's those people I blame, not the savers amongst the older generations.