Popla appeal advice

syf277

I admit, i certainly over reacted. Actually the shoe is on the other foot for me this time, i am usually on the other side being a consultant i am always the one dishing out the advice now i am getting a taste of my clients medicine, not entirely pleasant.
So my sincere apologies... (bows head in shame).
In my defense, i didn't just wonder into the forums and start asking for help, i did spend several weeks before posting anything

Umkomaas , thanks for the input on the case i will amend (I changed some parts of the template but didnt want to fiddle with it too much incase i made a mistake, as per advice on other threads and the sticky itself).
stargazer7, I hope you get your ticket sorted, good luck iam sure with these wonderfull (but busy ) peeps around you wont need luck.

Thanks again all!

Coupon-mad

Can I just check - you say you got a postal PCN within days? Was this an ANPR camera no-stopping zone or do you suspect this was based on sneaky manual camera snaps taken by a hopeful parking attendant who then never put a ticket on the car? If so, you have more appeal points to add as this isn't allowed under the KADOE contract PPCs have with the DVLA.

If it's NOT ANPR, this sort of PPC scam behaviour lacks the necessary 'audit trail'. They can only issue a postal PCN where it's an ANPR site, look here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66754248#Comment_66754248

It's a War and Peace version(!) but it should kill it if you adapt yours and add parts of my version!

Did your NTK arrive with the 'handwritten PCN' in the same envelope like in that case?

Did the NTK say the PCN 'was issued' on a certain date (in a box on the right) even though that's not true?

Did your NTK in the first few paragraphs say it was issued by post because...what reason?


Or was this an Airport PCN which we have LOADS of examples of, including relevant links in 'How to win at POPLA' for several Airport POPLA wording cases. People post about Airport roadway PCNs every other day and they are ANPR cases usually albeit the ones taken from a van are debateable as to whether they 'count' as ANPR! If this was at an Airport, there's no keeper liability due to byelaws and you can add that point as shown in the VCS Airport POPLA template example. If so I am surprised you used the 'windscreen ticket' template instead of the VCS at an Airport version...so I am a bit confused.

Please clarify the situation or show us a pic of both sides of that NTK. NEWBIES CAN'T post links to photos yet, but you CAN if you change the http to hxxp!

syf277

Thanks so very much for replying everyone! you are a modern day saviour coupon-mad!

The parking location is photographed below:
hxxp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/Parkinglocation_zps1ca75f14.jpg

It was not an airport, just a building on the side of the public highway with a car park round the side (I was never in the car park), simply stopped in the layby for a minute.
It will be very interesting to see the outcome of such wreckless and criminal behavior. Hopefully others in this situation will benefit as i have seen the same guy in the area no less than 4 times preying on this exact same spot (not the carpark!). - I did confront him and he said sorry, just contact the office and they will cancel it (hah! like hell they did).

Originally the driver who parked there was asked by this same man to simply move on as it was a restricted area, he had every opportunity to affix a NTD on the car but we all know why he didn't.

I will be posting all the evidence (letters from vcs and letters from me) appropriately sanitised shortly. Off to do it now actually

Once again thanks soooooo very much!

Umkomaas

And that's where the rub lies - half the stuff posted up shows that the OP has just copied and pasted almost any old thing that looks OK, then leaves it to regulars to plough through it, correcting the most basic schoolboy errors - like copy and pasting an appeal for an entirely different PPC than the one they are dealing with!

And if proof was ever needed, along comes today's copy, drop and hope for an 'expert' to do the hard work for me:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66925701#Comment_66925701

syf277

Hi again All,
Point Taken and wont happen again Umkomaas, although in my defense i wasn't quite as bad, i did do some research for a while (what can i say, iam a bit thick when it comes to legal matter anyway).

So I have now got all my evidence redacted and ready for anyone to have a look at who is in a similar awkward-ish situation as me , I will list the link and events chronologically:

1. Lets start with the picture of the alleged parking area:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/Parkinglocation_zps1ca75f14.jpg

Parked between the shutter and he glass, driver was in the car the whole time (about 1 min). Some chap comes over and says please move off, driver was ready to go anyway so did.

2. Get this in the post, shockingly. (This is all of the documentation note, no evidence such as photo etc).
NTD: this was attached to the NTK.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/NTD-SentbypostwithNTK_zpsc37cbd6a.jpg
Page 1/2 of the NTK:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/NTK-1of2_zpsff712782.jpg
Page 2/2 of the NTK (back)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/NTK-2of2_zpscdb88c09.jpg

3. My Initial appeal to the PPC (VCS). Which was ofcourse rejected
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/1stAppealtoVCS_zpsa5866390.jpg

4. The PPC's response to my initial appeal letter (as above).
**N.B. The PPC DID NOT INCLUDE A POPLA CODE IN THIS**
Page 1 of 2
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/VCS_Rejection-1of2_zpsf1366382.jpg
Page 2 of 2
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/VCS_Rejection-2of2_zps75eebc1c.jpg

5.My response to the PPC's appeal rejection letter - I had to ask again for a POPLA code in this one as last reply from PPC just had a blank space.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/replytovcs_zps52a2078e.jpg1

6. PPC Finally issued the POPLA code.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/Poplaissued_zpsbd7191cc.jpg

7. My final offer to PPC before i lodge the popla complaint and warning them i will be perusing damages:
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f3/syf277/Poplaissued_zpsbd7191cc.jpg

And thats where we are at. Iam now in the process of formulating a POPLA appeal letter. Apologies if its a bit long winded but, Iam sure someone will find it useful, and also someone can help me in the process ..

Comments and replies welcome.... I am more than happy to make any documents i have used (mostly from this forum) available to anyone who requests them.

Thanks again all!!!

Coupon-mad

That's a great summary of what happened when - makes it very clear your case is almost exactly like the drive-away VCS case I linked for you above! I think the only bit from the linked case that you can't copy is the short first appeal point, as they had a NTK (with a handwritten PCN like you did) but their NTK had words to the effect 'PCN issue date' which yours doesn't have.

Apart from that it's almost a carbon copy of the other case, although you will have to add your own summary as keeper, regarding what the state of the signs is like when you 'went to have a look'.

'War and Peace' version of a POPLA appeal coming up for you then! See the link, copy most of it & adapt any wrong detail. VCS have two chances of winning this appeal against you - slim and none. And slim just left the building.

syf277

Thanks so very much all, i will keep everyone posted on the outcome at popla
special thanks to coupon-mad.

syf277

Hi all,
Hope everyone is doing well...
I have an update on my case, so thought i would share with everyone.

Today I got an email from popla with VCS's evidence pack which was quite extensive.
After reviewing it thoroughly, I can well and truly say I think they are out to get me by hook or crook (probably the latter). I think iam well out of my depth here...
The whole evidence pack (appropriately censored) is available here:
hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/ns3sm33x4lswo1f/My%20Evidence%20pack.zip?dl=0

Am I expected to reply to this? Judging from some of the posts, yes i am supposed to offer some kind of rebuttal but I am really not sure where to start with it... Can anyone of you expert guys perhaps offer a bit of guidance?

Thanking you!

Coupon-mad

Wrong. You will win, not them, as long as you supply the right info to POPLA - but did you?

I assume your POPLA appeal included the usual drive-away section? I did tell you it was a drive-away case...gave you the link in post #13 to what to include:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66754248#Comment_66754248

You didn't show us your POPLA appeal. Hopefully you used the link I gave you, it was important as this was a drive-away case, easy to win as they cannot issue this sort of PCN. But I do hope you covered that in your appeal?

If not, then cover that in your rebuttal!

syf277

Hi Coupon-mad,
I could have sworn i posted the popla appeal letter here....must be loosing my mind...
Anyhow it located here if anyone needs a copy, it did contain almost all the points in the link you sent me but i will be drafting an appeal letter anyway.